Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Mafro » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:53 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:What kind of special grunt admits to feeling uncomfortable at these prospects. I'm 'uncomfortable' sharing the vote with them.

Highly likely they’re all leave voters.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by OrangeRKN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:54 pm

Preezy wrote:I only wouldn't support an overweight Disney princess.


Would it make you uncomfortable

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Frank » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:55 pm

It's a bit weird that the story is labelled as "half of the UK would be okay with a gay disney princess" when it's still bottom of their list. More people would want an old fat princess than a gay one.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Preezy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:59 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:
Preezy wrote:I only wouldn't support an overweight Disney princess.


Would it make you uncomfortable

Yes. As a father of a young girl I wouldn't want her to see being overweight as normal and celebrated. Childhood obesity is a massive problem in this country and it will probably be that generation's biggest killer.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Frank » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:59 pm

Isn't there a difference between overweight and obese, though?

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Preezy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:01 pm

Frank wrote:Isn't there a difference between overweight and obese, though?

Sure, I'd have to see the overweight princess before approving though obviously. I'm sure Disney will send me the test footage before green-lighting full production.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Karl » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:03 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:Imagine saying any of those categories would make you uncomfortable :dread:

It's interesting to me that "overweight" is almost as controversial as "gay".

Although it's sometimes something they say, I don't think they are seriously afraid that a movie will "turn my kid fat" or "turn my kid gay". But that kind of person likes to have a punching bag, a group they can rant about to externalise their anger. Maybe it's "the poofs", maybe it's "the heifers", maybe it's someone else. That prejudice makes them feel better, and they want the validation of being surrounded by a family that has the same view, so they'll actively foster it in their children. They would be disappointed if their children learned not to be cruel to gay people, or fat people. That's what this is really about.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by OrangeRKN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:25 pm

Preezy wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Preezy wrote:I only wouldn't support an overweight Disney princess.


Would it make you uncomfortable

Yes. As a father of a young girl I wouldn't want her to see being overweight as normal and celebrated. Childhood obesity is a massive problem in this country and it will probably be that generation's biggest killer.


Health concerns are valid, but I think there is a big gap between a character on screen being overweight (which is normal in the sense that it is representative of real life), and that character being morbidly obese and the film's message being "YOU SHOULD BE LIKE THIS TOO, GO BUY MORE DISNEY PRINCESS CHOCOLATES".

There are plenty of overweight characters in Disney films, so it feels odd to me to draw the line at the protagonist. But I think it's the actual phrasing, the idea that people say it would make them "uncomfortable" that I find troubling. Sure I can understand being uncomfortable about something aimed at kids that is actively trying to promote unhealthy behaviour, but the mere presence of a main character who isn't 100% "idealistic" I don't think should make people uncomfortable.

I think you could also counter the health argument with one about mental health - is it healthy for kids who are overweight to only ever see thinner protagonists? I think that can be damaging to kid's self image too.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by <]:^D » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:30 pm

Preezy wrote:I only wouldn't support an overweight Disney princess.

too heavy?

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Karl » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:34 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:Health concerns are valid

You shouldn't couch your argument in platitudes like this. Worrying that seeing an overweight Disney princess will turn your kid fat is at best stupid, not "valid".

I agree with the rest of your post. Particularly:

OrangeRakoon wrote:I think you could also counter the health argument with one about mental health - is it healthy for kids who are overweight to only ever see thinner protagonists? I think that can be damaging to kid's self image too.

Yeah. Medicine is thankfully moving past the idea that obesity is "self-inflicted" and that shame is a helpful motivator for weight loss. Obesity is caused by a complex battery of issues - different in each individual - and feeling ashamed almost always makes that patient worse (e.g. if someone eats when they're sad, making them feel more sad is not going to make them eat less).

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by OrangeRKN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:49 pm

Karl wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:Health concerns are valid

You shouldn't couch your argument in platitudes like this. Worrying that seeing an overweight Disney princess will turn your kid fat is at best stupid, not "valid".


I mean that not wanting your kid to be unhealthy is a valid concern to have, as opposed to say something ridiculous like "An overweight Disney princess would make me uncomfortable because I find fat people repulsive to look at". I don't think seeing an overweight character in a film runs any risk of encouraging a kid to eat unhealthily, but I can empathise with it as general worry that parents may have. There's a logic to the argument that I'd rather call uninformed or unwarranted than stupid.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Ironhide » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:28 pm

Where's the physically disabled option?

I don't think the target audience of Disney films really needs to think about the sexuality of a character as it's pretty much irrelevant whereas I think a lot of young children (and adults) would benefit from seeing that disability doesn't have to prevent people from living normal or interesting lives.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Frank » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:58 pm

That's true. The only character with a physical disability that I can think of is Nemo with his little fin. How to Train Your Dragon has a bit of a disability angle, too. There've been a couple of films that have had characters lose limbs but keep on trucking - Mark Hamill's spoken before about meeting kid's who've had limbs amputated due to illnesses and they've said that they knew they'd be okay because Luke Skywalker lost his hand too, so it shows that that kind of representation is important. There definitely needs to be more visibility for people like that in the media. The nsfw skittles adverts are one of the few times I can remember seeing physically disabled characters portrayed like normal people.

Last edited by Frank on Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Vermilion » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:03 pm

Ironhide wrote:I don't think the target audience of Disney films really needs to think about the sexuality of a character


I have to agree, focusing too much on sexuality does seem rather unnecessary when you consider that they're essentially films for kids.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Moggy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:28 pm

Vermilion wrote:
Ironhide wrote:I don't think the target audience of Disney films really needs to think about the sexuality of a character


I have to agree, focusing too much on sexuality does seem rather unnecessary when you consider that they're essentially films for kids.


It’s relevant in that there are plenty of Disney movies where the boy and girl fall in love.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Photek » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:32 pm

When our litle one seen Cam and mitchell kiss in modern family she said "that's weird" but we explained that men can love men and women can love women just like her mom and dad love each other and now she doesn't bat an eyelid when she see's it happen on tv from time to time.

I'd be ok with a gay protagonist ending up with a same sex husband/wife going forward.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by OrangeRKN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:36 pm

Frank wrote:How to Train Your Dragon has a bit of a disability angle, too.


That's what springs to my mind too

Gotta come back to Mad Max Fury Road though for the best example from films in general

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Frank » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:52 pm

Genuinely didn't realise Furiosa only had one arm for pretty much the first hour of watching it the first time :slol:

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Rightey » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:19 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:There are plenty of overweight characters in Disney films, so it feels odd to me to draw the line at the protagonist. But I think it's the actual phrasing, the idea that people say it would make them "uncomfortable" that I find troubling.


This is just a big issue with survey design. When you read the word uncomfortable you have a particular idea that the person who chose that selected the category because they don't like people who are in group x (old, fat, gay etc.) Whereas it could be that the person selected it for a number of different reasons.

For me thinking about Disney princesses, they often come from existing stories, like Snow White, or Cinderella, so some might feel uncomfortable with the original story being modified to make the princess a parent, or feminist. That being said I think they take a fair amount of creative liberty with stories anyways, but I could understand why some of those modifications might make people select that response. It's not necessarily that they don't like those groups of people.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Hexx » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:24 pm

Photek wrote:When our litle one seen Cam and mitchell kiss in modern family


When they chuff was that? They're the most platonic couple ever (We saw Phil pumping away in S1/Claire, you'd never get that from those two. Then again they're both loathsome :P)


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