Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character

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Karl
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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Karl » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:30 pm

Lotus wrote:Don't worry Karl, I was being flippant. I honestly don't care about Disney princesses.

There are two really common jokes about identity issues. One is "We should make sure every film has a black trans lesbian, then everyone will be happy!", and the other is "Did you just assume my gender? I actually identify as an attack helicopter." Almost all the dank bantz I see on this subject is a variation on one of those two lines.

Obviously I don't think everyone who makes those jokes is a bigot, but they're frustrating to hear over and over because they miss the point of what they're commenting on and make the communities who care about this stuff feel belittled.

I don't care about Disney princesses in particular either, but I do care about representation in arts & entertainment -- media is a big part of our lives so I think it's pretty important.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Johnny Ryall » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:31 pm

Don't think I've seen Mulan but Moana and Brave are excellent.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Lotus » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:28 am

The inevitable Guardian article on this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ess-frozen

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Benzin » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:38 am

That article :dread:

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by KK » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:43 am

So predictable.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Rex Kramer » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:45 am

OrangeRakoon wrote:
Moggy wrote:For example, there is no shortage of straight white men in movies/on TV, but I always find it exciting if something is filmed or set in Bristol. It’s amazing to see people acting in locations that I recognise. I can only imagine just how much more exciting it must have been for black people to see Black Panther after decades of movie superheros being white.


That's actually a really great analogy, considering that I also think it's cool if I see something set or filmed in Coventry :lol: It gives me (as a privileged in most ways person) a way of empathising or better understanding how much people's identity being represented can mean. Now I can actually say "oh it's like this but more" rather than just having an abstract or rational understanding of it.

You've seen the Hitman's Bodyguard I assume?

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by OrangeRKN » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:47 am

I have not o:

Well now I need to watch it :lol:

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Frank » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:49 am

The Nativity films are also all filmed very locally :shifty:

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by <]:^D » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:50 am

it was quite "predictable" but to be devils avocado what parts of the factual information did you disagree with?

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Preezy » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:56 am

<]:^D wrote:it was quite "predictable" but to be devils avocado what parts of the factual information did you disagree with?

Disney princes should be kinder – like that manipulative hostage-taker and groomer the Beast, or the prince in Sleeping Beauty who sexually assaults a drugged-by-magic princess. These are the Disney douchebags who need a kindness makeover, or a prison sentence.

:lol:

Utter claptrap.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by OrangeRKN » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:23 pm

Frank wrote:The Nativity films are also all filmed very locally :shifty:


The posh school in the first one was partly filmed at my school

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by KK » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:29 pm

But of all the princesses, only Moana escapes being presented as lithe, nubile, big-eyed and sexually alluring to straight adult men.

She's sick in the head.

In life as in fairytales, the truth comes out in the end. The kicker is when YouGov asks people to rank their favourite Disney princesses. Out of 14, the top six chosen are white. Of the non-white women, Tiana from The Princess and the Frog is rock bottom and Pocahontas second from bottom. Jasmine, Moana and Mulan cluster behind Merida, Rapunzel (fun girl, great hair, hostage), Cinderella (domestic slave goes to party, meets a foot fetishist, marries up), Ariel (gets a boyfriend, loses her athletic ability and her literal voice) and Belle (trafficked by her father, sold to a dog). The winner? Snow White, the ultimate masochist. Finds her bliss cleaning seven men’s toilet.

She needs help. And she's conveniently missed out YouGov's analysis that the ranking of favourite princesses had a direct correlation to what the general public had actually watched or were familiar with.

YouGov wrote:The data reveals a likely reason for Snow White’s pole position: she stars in what is by far the most widely-watched Disney princess movie. Almost three quarters of Brits (74%) say they have seen the 1937 film, substantially ahead of the second-most watched movie – Aladdin – on 61%.

If we look at the data another way: what percentage of people who have seen a given princess’s movie say that the princess who starred in that particular movie is their favourite? Under this measure, Moana comes out on top, with 17% of those who have watched her movie saying she is their favourite Disney princess.


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When its fans aren’t carefully answering poll questions to make themselves look open-minded and just list their favourites, they reveal that they like their princesses just like their Starbucks coffees: hot, skinny and white.

And here's the unwinnable line. The argument you can never win. Because however you answered this poll, it would have been wrong. Genuinely believe Moana is the best role model? Or that you simply like her as a character, devoid of any particular reasoning? Well then you were OBVIOUSLY answering the poll to only appear open-minded. You're racist. Answer that your favourite is Cinderella? You're probably a racist and a pervert.

God, these people. It's just the Daily Mail in reverse, constantly trying to sow division somewhere, anywhere they can find it, in the most innocent of things. The fact you can never do anything right with these people. Ever. Everything is wrong, overthought, over-analysed, dissected and rubbished. Hold a door open for a disabled woman one day and they'd find a way of writing a 1000 word essay on its hidden meanings.

For as little as £1, you can support the Guardian.

strawberry float off.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by OrangeRKN » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:30 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:You've seen the Hitman's Bodyguard I assume?


Well I just looked up a scene, and none of that is in Coventry. Apparently it was all filmed in Kensington :fp:

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Jenuall » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:30 pm

Yeah that Guardian article is a pretty terrible read.

There are some valid points in there but it is all masked behind a wave of bile and aggression that sees anything "other" as an enemy to be attacked that it is hard to have much energy to consider those points.

It's also just straight up wrong in several instances where the writer is trying to make a point that is not backed up by facts:

the prince in Sleeping Beauty who sexually assaults a drugged-by-magic princess


Nope.

Belle (trafficked by her father, sold to a dog)


Nope.

Moana, Mulan and Merida ... only Moana escapes being presented as lithe, nubile, big-eyed and sexually alluring to straight adult men


There is no way you can say the presentation of Merida meets that crass description.

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Benzin » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:39 pm

Jenuall wrote:There is no way you can say the presentation of Merida meets that crass description.


She's Scottish for one ;)

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by <]:^D » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:42 pm

Preezy wrote:
<]:^D wrote:it was quite "predictable" but to be devils avocado what parts of the factual information did you disagree with?

Disney princes should be kinder – like that manipulative hostage-taker and groomer the Beast, or the prince in Sleeping Beauty who sexually assaults a drugged-by-magic princess. These are the Disney douchebags who need a kindness makeover, or a prison sentence.

:lol:

Utter claptrap.

how is that claptrap? Beast is a kidnapper, and the prince in Sleeping Beauty does kiss someone against their will :?

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by OrangeRKN » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:47 pm

Given the source material Disney toned it down an awful lot

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Jenuall » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:12 pm

<]:^D wrote:
Preezy wrote:
<]:^D wrote:it was quite "predictable" but to be devils avocado what parts of the factual information did you disagree with?

Disney princes should be kinder – like that manipulative hostage-taker and groomer the Beast, or the prince in Sleeping Beauty who sexually assaults a drugged-by-magic princess. These are the Disney douchebags who need a kindness makeover, or a prison sentence.

:lol:

Utter claptrap.

how is that claptrap? Beast is a kidnapper, and the prince in Sleeping Beauty does kiss someone against their will :?


Well Aurora was in a cursed sleep that could only be undone by "true love's kiss" so given that the kiss from the Prince worked I think we can give him a pass on that one? Given that she is cursed to sleep forever can she even be said to have the ability to express her will at that point in time? Is giving someone the "kiss of life" sexual assault?

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Karl » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:14 pm

Jenuall wrote:ls giving someone the "kiss of life" sexual assault?

Only if they've previously told you "I'd rather die than kiss you".

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PostRe: Moana regarded as best role model for girls; half the UK wants Disney lead gay character
by Moggy » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:14 pm

KK wrote:God, these people. It's just the Daily Mail in reverse, constantly trying to sow division somewhere, anywhere they can find it, in the most innocent of things. The fact you can never do anything right with these people. Ever. Everything is wrong, overthought, over-analysed, dissected and rubbished. Hold a door open for a disabled woman one day and they'd find a way of writing a 1000 word essay on its hidden meanings.


I think that Guardian article was mostly bollocks, but comparing it to Daily Mail articles is way off the mark.

What’s the worst that can happen with the two sides?

A DM divisive article ends up with more hatred, vitriol and violence against immigrants/black people/Muslims/gay people.

A Guardian divisive article ends up with a black princess in a Disney movie, or a strong female role model. Scary.

The Disney article might be mostly bollocks, but it’s bizarre how angry right wingers get about that sort of thing.


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