Movie News/Discussion Thread 2

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Grumpy David » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:33 pm

New Ghostbusters. :dread:

Ocean's 8. :dread:

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:35 pm

Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:There is a scene in the newest Avengers where Games massages Thor's muscles. Do you think people don't wasn't too be sexualised? Go to the beach in summer, there are plenty of people who want to sexually attractive.


Have a read of my last paragraph there!

Again, I'm talking about the male gaze.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze

The male gaze is a specific viewpoint in media. I'm not saying "no sexualisation booo!" I'm saying no male gaze.

Ok I can see where you're coming from. Just off the top of my head how do you feel about the Hemsworth stuff in the new Ghostbusters? Does it make a difference that one of the women goes weak at the knees because the film is from the ladies perspective or is it still a male gaze thing.


That was an interesting one, as it quite clearly positioned Hemsworth as the dumb totty and did this very, very intentionally I think. It was, I believe, a parody and exaggeration of the role many women fill in those sorts of films. How many times do we see men literally drooling at the mouth at the hot woman in films? The weak at the knees thing was the reversal. Obviously I was fine with it as I saw it as parody.

Like I mentioned in the...I forget which thread now, but I mentioned that the whole women's rights thing is about equality not equity. Women are starting from a position of weakness in terms of representation in media so if a parody of their inclusion involving a man is made to highlight this position then yeah, I'm fine with that.

As an aside, I thought the new Ghostbusters was entirely average. Obviously not deserving of all the hate it got, but not a good film.

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Pedz
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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Pedz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:36 pm

Wa\s it a parody of the male equivalent, or it that just your perception on it?

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:40 pm

Pedz wrote:Wa\s it a parody of the male equivalent, or it that just your perception on it?


That's totally my own perception. Although, after a bit of googling it seems to be the accepted opinion:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/20 ... ers-review

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/chris-h ... t-comments

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Pedz
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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Pedz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:46 pm

I think when discussing things like certain scenes from films, perceptions are going to cloud things somewhat. Unless the director says what the intent was you aren't actually in a position where you view is correct or wrong. I think this makes sense...

Like the JJ Abrams apology, clearly shows he did it for titillation more than anything else. I'm not saying don't discuss these things, I'm just thinking when you so rigidly stick to a particular view do your views on certain subjects cloud the intents of certain scenes?

I guess that doesn't really have much to do with the specifics of what you were talking about.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Hime » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:47 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:There is a scene in the newest Avengers where Games massages Thor's muscles. Do you think people don't wasn't too be sexualised? Go to the beach in summer, there are plenty of people who want to sexually attractive.


Have a read of my last paragraph there!

Again, I'm talking about the male gaze.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze

The male gaze is a specific viewpoint in media. I'm not saying "no sexualisation booo!" I'm saying no male gaze.

Ok I can see where you're coming from. Just off the top of my head how do you feel about the Hemsworth stuff in the new Ghostbusters? Does it make a difference that one of the women goes weak at the knees because the film is from the ladies perspective or is it still a male gaze thing.


That was an interesting one, as it quite clearly positioned Hemsworth as the dumb totty and did this very, very intentionally I think. It was, I believe, a parody and exaggeration of the role many women fill in those sorts of films. How many times do we see men literally drooling at the mouth at the hot woman in films? The weak at the knees thing was the reversal. Obviously I was fine with it as I saw it as parody.

Like I mentioned in the...I forget which thread now, but I mentioned that the whole women's rights thing is about equality not equity. Women are starting from a position of weakness in terms of representation in media so if a parody of their inclusion involving a man is made to highlight this position then yeah, I'm fine with that.

As an aside, I thought the new Ghostbusters was entirely average. Obviously not deserving of all the hate it got, but not a good film.

How often are the women shown as total air heads in movies that have attractive lead males unless it's a comedy/stoner movie? I can't think of many women cast in the role Hemsworth played. How about something like Magic Mike? Again it's a role reversal thing but if it's not a problem in this why would it be a problem of the strippers were women?

What does equality actually mean in this context? Is it about more women getting leading roles in the types of films that would normally be cast with a male actor? Is it cool for the women to be scantily clad if the film is shot from a women's perspective? It seems like the kind of issue that can always be applied if you spin your argument appropriately.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:47 pm

Pedz wrote:I think when discussing things like certain scenes from films, perceptions are going to cloud things somewhat. Unless the director says what the intent was you aren't actually in a position where you view is correct or wrong. I think this makes sense...

Like the JJ Abrams apology, clearly shows he did it for titillation more than anything else. I'm not saying don't discuss these things, I'm just thinking when you so rigidly stick to a particular view do your views on certain subjects clouding the intents of certain scenes?

I guess that doesn't really have much to do with the specifics of what you were talking about.


Oh yeah, no doubt. I think I clearly indicated that it was my opinion on the role though.

Tafdolphin wrote:That was an interesting one, as it quite clearly positioned Hemsworth as the dumb totty and did this very, very intentionally I think. It was, I believe, a parody and exaggeration of the role many women fill in those sorts of films.

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:52 pm

Hime wrote:What does equality actually mean in this context? Is it about more women getting leading roles in the types of films that would normally be cast with a male actor? Is it cool for the women to be scantily clad if the film is shot from a women's perspective? It seems like the kind of issue that can always be applied if you spin your argument appropriately.


It's about representation. It's about films being made that appear to a female audience. It's about, if we go off camera for a second, women getting paid as much as men. It's about films fulfilling the Bechdel Test

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And any argument can, of course be spun any way you like. What you can't spin is the fact that there are less women in leading roles than men, that they are paid less and that when women do appear they are often portrayed as a sexual object.

Again, it's getting better. Not within the blockbuster genre so much, although films like Ghostbusters, Ocean's 8 and Bridesmaids are more and more common, but look at indie films with recent releases like Lady Bird and even I, Tonya.

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Pedz
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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Pedz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:53 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Pedz wrote:I think when discussing things like certain scenes from films, perceptions are going to cloud things somewhat. Unless the director says what the intent was you aren't actually in a position where you view is correct or wrong. I think this makes sense...

Like the JJ Abrams apology, clearly shows he did it for titillation more than anything else. I'm not saying don't discuss these things, I'm just thinking when you so rigidly stick to a particular view do your views on certain subjects clouding the intents of certain scenes?

I guess that doesn't really have much to do with the specifics of what you were talking about.


Oh yeah, no doubt. I think I clearly indicated that it was my opinion on the role.

Tafdolphin wrote:That was an interesting one, as it quite clearly positioned Hemsworth as the dumb totty and did this very, very intentionally I think. It was, I believe, a parody and exaggeration of the role many women fill in those sorts of films.


I know, I was just thinking about it in more a general sense.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Preezy » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:00 pm

Finding Nemo is a film about fish.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Pedz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:00 pm

But Nemo's Father should be his Mother.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:00 pm

Preezy wrote:Finding Nemo is a film about fish.


...is it?

Obviously not, it's a film about fatherhood. Why fatherhood as opposed to motherhood?

Sssh.

Because the vast majority of people in the film biz are male and therefore fatherhood is their de facto experience. Same thing is happening in the game industry now (The Last of Us and God of War for eg)

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Hime » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:03 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:What does equality actually mean in this context? Is it about more women getting leading roles in the types of films that would normally be cast with a male actor? Is it cool for the women to be scantily clad if the film is shot from a women's perspective? It seems like the kind of issue that can always be applied if you spin your argument appropriately.


It's about representation. It's about films being made that appear to a female audience. It's about, if we go off camera for a second, women getting paid as much as men. It's about films fulfilling the Bechdel Test

Image

And any argument can, of course be spun any way you like. What you can't spin is the fact that there are less women in leading roles than men, that they are paid less and that when women do appear they are often portrayed as a sexual object.

Again, it's getting better. Not within the blockbuster genre so much, although films like Ghostbusters, Ocean's 8 and Bridesmaids are more and more common, but look at indie films with recent releases like Lady Bird and even I, Tonya.

So you think women enjoy films more when a women is in the leading role?

That chart is exactly what I mean, there are loads of films that they could choose that wood make it completely different, they have been chosen to support a specific agenda.

See Ghostbusters is an interesting one, the new film is obviously from the female perspective but I'd say the female characters in the original are far better female characters. The slightly rapey scene side Venkman is the character falling over himself while Dana is strong and confident. Janine is also excellent.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:08 pm

Hime wrote:So you think women enjoy films more when a women is in the leading role?


I'm not a woman. I can't say for sure. What I do know is this: given the relative population of men to women, men are overly represented in film. If it were the other way around, I'd be pretty pissed wouldn't you?

That chart is exactly what I mean, there are loads of films that they could choose that wood make it completely different, they have been chosen to support a specific agenda.


I'm not sure what agenda you're talking about there. The Bechdel Test is an established metric within film academia that is used to show the under-representation of women in film. It's pretty cut and dry.

See Ghostbusters is an interesting one, the new film is obviously from the female perspective but I'd say the female characters in the original are far better female characters. The slightly rapey scene side Venkman is the character falling over himself while Dana is strong and confident. Janine is also excellent.


The fact that you can so casually say this is...yeah. The problem really. I strawberry floating love the original GB but Venkman is a strawberry floating creep in that film. And that's besides the point: the point is not the quality of the writing so much as it is the existence of writing that attempts to portray women as something other than the sidekick or a romantic foil for the male lead.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Hime » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:17 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:So you think women enjoy films more when a women is in the leading role?


I'm not a woman. I can't say for sure. What I do know is this: given the relative population of men to women, men are overly represented in film. If it were the other way around, I'd be pretty pissed wouldn't you?

That chart is exactly what I mean, there are loads of films that they could choose that wood make it completely different, they have been chosen to support a specific agenda.


I'm not sure what agenda you're talking about there. The Bechdel Test is an established metric within film academia that is used to show the under-representation of women in film. It's pretty cut and dry.

See Ghostbusters is an interesting one, the new film is obviously from the female perspective but I'd say the female characters in the original are far better female characters. The slightly rapey scene side Venkman is the character falling over himself while Dana is strong and confident. Janine is also excellent.


The fact that you can so casually say this is...yeah. The problem really. I strawberry floating love the original GB but Venkman is a strawberry floating creep in that film. And that's besides the point: the point is not the quality of the writing so much as it is the existence of writing that attempts to portray women as something other than the sidekick or a romantic foil for the male lead.

Not really, I watch films to... watch good films. I've never watched a film that has a women in the leading role and thought I'd enjoy it more if it were a man.

I haven't said there is anything wrong wth the test, just the films they have chosen. You could show the same test wth different films and get a different result.

How have I been casual about it? I could have ignored it entirely but I chose to mention it to demonstrate that I understand it is not acceptable. I completely disagree wth your argument though , I would rather be represented as a good, well written side character than get the leading role as a zany caricature even if it meant I was technically better represented.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Preezy » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:43 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Preezy wrote:Finding Nemo is a film about fish.


...is it?

Obviously not, it's a film about fatherhood. Why fatherhood as opposed to motherhood?

Deliberated about posting this because I can’t be arsed with getting into a long debate quote chain when I’m watching the World Cup, but I just have to say that this is a load of horse gooseberry fool. Finding Nemo is not about fatherhood, it’s about parenthood. The gender of Nemo’s parent isn’t important, there’s nothing in the film that’s specifically about fatherhood or viewed from the male perspective. It’s entirely about the need for a parent to protect their child. That’s it.

I can’t believe I’m arguing about Finding Nemo on the Internet, what have I become :lol: :fp:

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:49 pm

Agree to disagree then, as I too have worn myself out.

Hip hip hooray!

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Hime » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:03 pm

Winner 8-)

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Hime wrote:Winner 8-)


Ha!

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Pedz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:55 pm

There's a trophy for winning the internet? Must start winning more. It'll be my first trophy.

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