Movie News/Discussion Thread 2 - Taylor Bowl Trailers p306

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:48 pm

Lol etc.

I'm glad its fake. That sort of leering male gaze nonsense has no place in Marvel films, especially due to the huge female fanbase they have these days.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:06 pm

Preezy wrote:We mustn’t ever be forced to see the outrageous and frankly dangerous image of a lady in her undergarments, this is Victorian England don’t you know!


Frank wrote:Doesn't Ruffalo wake up naked in the wreckage of a swimming pool after hulking out in the Avengers?


Under the proviso that this is fake footage and we're now talking purely about hypotheticals I want to say something about these two reactions: it's not just about a woman appearing in her underwear. It's about, as I mentioned, the male gaze.

The vast majority of films, especially AAA blockbusters are shot from the a male perspective. The men are usually muscly white dudes, the women are smoking hot, the action is loud and intense. Although the men may appear naked from the chest down occasionally, you can generally hear the cinematography in these moments whispering 'no homo' as the scene progresses. With women however, the camera in scenes with the hot chicks practically screams "Pppphwoar! Get a load of that, eh?"

Examples:



Probably the most gratuitous male 'nudity' as seen in any Marvel film (as far as I can remember). I'm not saying Steve Rogers isn't presented as hot here, but the scene also serves a narrative purpose to illustrate how drastic the transformation was. Also, notice the 'no homo' moment as the hot chick immediately fawns over Steve.



Banner is naked from the chest down, but is wrapped in a literal sack. Never does the camera slowly pan across his naked torso.



Right from the off, Fox is posed like a porn star. It gets worse, with the joke during the scene at 0.51 being 'ha ha, it looks like she's giving him a blowjob'



There is literally no point to this scene apart from titilation. Again, JJ Abrahms regretted its inclusion so much he apologised for it on the film's release

My problem, as always, is with the tone not the contents of the scene viewed free from context.

It's gotten better. Again off the top of my head, there are a several scenes in Marvel films that do...appreciate the physiques of the male cast without immediately feeling embarrassed. Marvel generally do this stuff really well, which is why I was so disappointed at the Captain Marvel footage (before realising it was obviously fake). Star Wars too has never had a scene of Rey slowly emerging from a shower or the like (with the only partial nudity being Ren).

The male gaze default is becoming less common, but it is the default still.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by 7256930752 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:19 pm







There is a scene in the newest Avengers where Games massages Thor's muscles. Do you think people don't wasn't too be sexualised? Go to the beach in summer, there are plenty of people who want to sexually attractive.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:21 pm

Hime wrote:There is a scene in the newest Avengers where Games massages Thor's muscles. Do you think people don't wasn't too be sexualised? Go to the beach in summer, there are plenty of people who want to sexually attractive.


Have a read of my last paragraph there!

Again, I'm talking about the male gaze.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze

The male gaze is a specific viewpoint in media. I'm not saying "no sexualisation booo!" I'm saying no male gaze.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:22 pm

I don't think it's the male gaze now. There are plenty of women that love looking at other women's bodies.

Personally I think in main release blockbuster films that are pitched as 12A you are now more likely to see gazing shots of muscle hunks with their shirts off.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:24 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:I don't think it's the male gaze now. There are plenty of women that love looking at other women's bodies.

Personally I think in main release blockbuster films that are pitched as 12A you are now more likely to see gazing shots of muscle hunks with their shirts off.


I disagree, but you've engaged with my concept which is cool. Appreciated!

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Buffalo » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:24 pm

Beyond parody.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:25 pm

Buffalo wrote:Beyond parody.


Pipe down mate.

That's me being funny.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:28 pm

Buffalo wrote:God I wish you would. Every single thread, this creepy and bizarre crusade for vagina justice. Stop, man.


Again, I politely decline. People get to moan about me, which apparently they enjoy, and I get to stand tall on my moral highground.

Until it becomes a bannable offence, I'll keep talking about it!



EDIT: Too slow mofo!

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by 7256930752 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:31 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:There is a scene in the newest Avengers where Games massages Thor's muscles. Do you think people don't wasn't too be sexualised? Go to the beach in summer, there are plenty of people who want to sexually attractive.


Have a read of my last paragraph there!

Again, I'm talking about the male gaze.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze

The male gaze is a specific viewpoint in media. I'm not saying "no sexualisation booo!" I'm saying no male gaze.

Ok I can see where you're coming from. Just off the top of my head how do you feel about the Hemsworth stuff in the new Ghostbusters? Does it make a difference that one of the women goes weak at the knees because the film is from the ladies perspective or is it still a male gaze thing?

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Grumpy David » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:33 pm

New Ghostbusters. :dread:

Ocean's 8. :dread:

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:35 pm

Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:There is a scene in the newest Avengers where Games massages Thor's muscles. Do you think people don't wasn't too be sexualised? Go to the beach in summer, there are plenty of people who want to sexually attractive.


Have a read of my last paragraph there!

Again, I'm talking about the male gaze.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze

The male gaze is a specific viewpoint in media. I'm not saying "no sexualisation booo!" I'm saying no male gaze.

Ok I can see where you're coming from. Just off the top of my head how do you feel about the Hemsworth stuff in the new Ghostbusters? Does it make a difference that one of the women goes weak at the knees because the film is from the ladies perspective or is it still a male gaze thing.


That was an interesting one, as it quite clearly positioned Hemsworth as the dumb totty and did this very, very intentionally I think. It was, I believe, a parody and exaggeration of the role many women fill in those sorts of films. How many times do we see men literally drooling at the mouth at the hot woman in films? The weak at the knees thing was the reversal. Obviously I was fine with it as I saw it as parody.

Like I mentioned in the...I forget which thread now, but I mentioned that the whole women's rights thing is about equality not equity. Women are starting from a position of weakness in terms of representation in media so if a parody of their inclusion involving a man is made to highlight this position then yeah, I'm fine with that.

As an aside, I thought the new Ghostbusters was entirely average. Obviously not deserving of all the hate it got, but not a good film.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Pedz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:36 pm

Wa\s it a parody of the male equivalent, or it that just your perception on it?

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:40 pm

Pedz wrote:Wa\s it a parody of the male equivalent, or it that just your perception on it?


That's totally my own perception. Although, after a bit of googling it seems to be the accepted opinion:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/20 ... ers-review

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/chris-h ... t-comments

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Pedz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:46 pm

I think when discussing things like certain scenes from films, perceptions are going to cloud things somewhat. Unless the director says what the intent was you aren't actually in a position where you view is correct or wrong. I think this makes sense...

Like the JJ Abrams apology, clearly shows he did it for titillation more than anything else. I'm not saying don't discuss these things, I'm just thinking when you so rigidly stick to a particular view do your views on certain subjects cloud the intents of certain scenes?

I guess that doesn't really have much to do with the specifics of what you were talking about.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by 7256930752 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:47 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:There is a scene in the newest Avengers where Games massages Thor's muscles. Do you think people don't wasn't too be sexualised? Go to the beach in summer, there are plenty of people who want to sexually attractive.


Have a read of my last paragraph there!

Again, I'm talking about the male gaze.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze

The male gaze is a specific viewpoint in media. I'm not saying "no sexualisation booo!" I'm saying no male gaze.

Ok I can see where you're coming from. Just off the top of my head how do you feel about the Hemsworth stuff in the new Ghostbusters? Does it make a difference that one of the women goes weak at the knees because the film is from the ladies perspective or is it still a male gaze thing.


That was an interesting one, as it quite clearly positioned Hemsworth as the dumb totty and did this very, very intentionally I think. It was, I believe, a parody and exaggeration of the role many women fill in those sorts of films. How many times do we see men literally drooling at the mouth at the hot woman in films? The weak at the knees thing was the reversal. Obviously I was fine with it as I saw it as parody.

Like I mentioned in the...I forget which thread now, but I mentioned that the whole women's rights thing is about equality not equity. Women are starting from a position of weakness in terms of representation in media so if a parody of their inclusion involving a man is made to highlight this position then yeah, I'm fine with that.

As an aside, I thought the new Ghostbusters was entirely average. Obviously not deserving of all the hate it got, but not a good film.

How often are the women shown as total air heads in movies that have attractive lead males unless it's a comedy/stoner movie? I can't think of many women cast in the role Hemsworth played. How about something like Magic Mike? Again it's a role reversal thing but if it's not a problem in this why would it be a problem of the strippers were women?

What does equality actually mean in this context? Is it about more women getting leading roles in the types of films that would normally be cast with a male actor? Is it cool for the women to be scantily clad if the film is shot from a women's perspective? It seems like the kind of issue that can always be applied if you spin your argument appropriately.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:47 pm

Pedz wrote:I think when discussing things like certain scenes from films, perceptions are going to cloud things somewhat. Unless the director says what the intent was you aren't actually in a position where you view is correct or wrong. I think this makes sense...

Like the JJ Abrams apology, clearly shows he did it for titillation more than anything else. I'm not saying don't discuss these things, I'm just thinking when you so rigidly stick to a particular view do your views on certain subjects clouding the intents of certain scenes?

I guess that doesn't really have much to do with the specifics of what you were talking about.


Oh yeah, no doubt. I think I clearly indicated that it was my opinion on the role though.

Tafdolphin wrote:That was an interesting one, as it quite clearly positioned Hemsworth as the dumb totty and did this very, very intentionally I think. It was, I believe, a parody and exaggeration of the role many women fill in those sorts of films.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:52 pm

Hime wrote:What does equality actually mean in this context? Is it about more women getting leading roles in the types of films that would normally be cast with a male actor? Is it cool for the women to be scantily clad if the film is shot from a women's perspective? It seems like the kind of issue that can always be applied if you spin your argument appropriately.


It's about representation. It's about films being made that appear to a female audience. It's about, if we go off camera for a second, women getting paid as much as men. It's about films fulfilling the Bechdel Test

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And any argument can, of course be spun any way you like. What you can't spin is the fact that there are less women in leading roles than men, that they are paid less and that when women do appear they are often portrayed as a sexual object.

Again, it's getting better. Not within the blockbuster genre so much, although films like Ghostbusters, Ocean's 8 and Bridesmaids are more and more common, but look at indie films with recent releases like Lady Bird and even I, Tonya.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Pedz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:53 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Pedz wrote:I think when discussing things like certain scenes from films, perceptions are going to cloud things somewhat. Unless the director says what the intent was you aren't actually in a position where you view is correct or wrong. I think this makes sense...

Like the JJ Abrams apology, clearly shows he did it for titillation more than anything else. I'm not saying don't discuss these things, I'm just thinking when you so rigidly stick to a particular view do your views on certain subjects clouding the intents of certain scenes?

I guess that doesn't really have much to do with the specifics of what you were talking about.


Oh yeah, no doubt. I think I clearly indicated that it was my opinion on the role.

Tafdolphin wrote:That was an interesting one, as it quite clearly positioned Hemsworth as the dumb totty and did this very, very intentionally I think. It was, I believe, a parody and exaggeration of the role many women fill in those sorts of films.


I know, I was just thinking about it in more a general sense.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Preezy » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:00 pm

Finding Nemo is a film about fish.


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