Movie News/Discussion Thread 2 - Taylor Bowl Trailers p306

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Moggy
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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Moggy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:31 pm

Preezy wrote:We should have a Chinese James Bond.


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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by more heat than light » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:32 pm

Preezy wrote:We should have a Chinese James Bond.


:lol:

I kinda hate being on this side of the argument, I'm usually incredibly liberal and this does make me feel like I'm turning into one of 'them'. I think I'll leave it there, I think I'll just end up digging myself into a hole I can't escape from. Good arguments Moggy, well fought. :-)

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Moggy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:33 pm

myrrh heat than light wrote:
Preezy wrote:We should have a Chinese James Bond.


:lol:

I kinda hate being on this side of the argument, I'm usually incredibly liberal and this does make me feel like I'm turning into one of 'them'. I think I'll leave it there, I think I'll just end up digging myself into a hole I can't escape from. Good arguments Moggy, well fought. :-)


You went from incredibly liberal into a screaming member of the alt-right.

I blame the achievements.

;)

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by more heat than light » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:38 pm

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Skippy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:24 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
Skippy wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:They should have avoided showing the ancestral home of the Bond’s in Skyfall and gone with the “James Bond is a codename” idea.


I've never despised a fan theory more than the "James Bond is a codename" theory


Good for you.

It makes far more sense than the idea that this bloke has been wandering around the world for over 50 years, using his real name and changing his face/accent/height during all that time. It also opens it up to any actor being able to play the role without the bullshit “Noooo BOND IS WHITE!!!” comments.

Edit:

It was also sort of there when Lazenby took over. His first words were "this never happened to the other guy!", which instantly opened up the idea that James Bond was never an actual person.


That, or the James Bond series isn't a strict, single narrative that needs to have flawless logic. Instead it's a string of largely episodic stories about a small cast of characters that move and change with the times. It's episodic, an anthology series in some respects, it plays loosely with its structure and that's exactly how it's been able to go for 55 years. It is not telling a single, logical story with 24 chapters, and that's what the people who buy into the codename theory refuse to or cannot understand.

Plus Bond doesn't have to be white. His character is a privelleged arsehole which, yeah is easier to sell with a white guy but it doesn't have to be in 2017.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Moggy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:57 pm

Skippy wrote:
That, or the James Bond series isn't a strict, single narrative that needs to have flawless logic. Instead it's a string of largely episodic stories about a small cast of characters that move and change with the times. It's episodic, an anthology series in some respects, it plays loosely with its structure and that's exactly how it's been able to go for 55 years. It is not telling a single, logical story with 24 chapters, and that's what the people who buy into the codename theory refuse to or cannot understand.


Bond has never been an anthology series though. The Connery films were referred to by Lazenby, Moore visited the grave of the wife of Lazenby, etc. The Daniel Craig era kind of stood alone, until Skyfall when they referred back to the older films.

It doesn't have to be a single, logical story, of course not. But it certainly can all be linked together by easily and simply just making the name a codename. Which also makes perfect sense, why would a superspy be jetting around the world telling all the villains his real name? That's what people that hate the codename theory refuse or cannot understand.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Preezy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:54 am

Sicario 2: Soldado trailer is out, looks badass :datass:


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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Tafdolphin » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:14 am

Looks straight to DVD.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Preezy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:50 am

Rudolphin wrote:Looks straight to DVD.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Parksey » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:36 am

Yeah the "Bond is a codename" theory is a bit gooseberry fool. I don't know why you need to try and tie in 24 movies that clearly weren't ever meant to be tied together.

And that it makes more sense that MI5 would just pick people with the exact same personality tropes and give them the same codename over 50-odd years. Bond is a character, not a canon. They link together in various ways and usually the same actor's "series" are a collective whole, but really each movie is almost a stand alone adventure featuring the character of James Bond.

I can't see what he has to be white also. MHTL said that "James Bond was white" but where has that been stated? I've read most of the books and can't remember it in any description (not that this would be a legitimate reason anyway). If you audition for the role, and the best candidate is black, cast him. His personality traits aren't dependent or affected by skin colour. He's an arrogant, selfish, mmasochistic, destructive prick. I don't think they are things dictated by the colour of your skin.

Besides, Fleming himself altered bits of Bond to match Connery's portrayal. The character is pretty fluid(not literallt, - you couldn't cast a bottle of 7UP in the role for example).

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Preezy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:19 am

myrrh heat than light wrote:
Preezy wrote:We should have a Chinese James Bond.


:lol:

I say that because it's often met with a "urr yeah maybe not" reaction when I've had conversations with people that say we should have a black Bond. The people I've spoken to seem to want to appear liberal or inclusive (in case there are any black people hiding in the bushes?), but they're not really, because if they were then they'd be happy to have a Chinese, Polynesian or Arabic Bond as well. It's the pushing of a very particular race to be Bond, rather than any race, that ticks me off.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Skarjo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:24 am

I didn't mind the Codename theory - it just just didn't really fit with the evidence all that well (as mentioned before with all the cross-referencing between characters).

With regards to black Bond etc; go for it. Unless the ethnicity is actually important to the character (I don't really fancy an all white remake of Amistad for instance), then cast whoever you want.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Frank » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:36 am

It’s interesting when the diversity topic comes up how little Asian representation there is in big name films. It’s always just white people or black people. It’s why Rose is so good in the Last Jedi :wub:

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Moggy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:44 am

Frank wrote:It’s interesting when the diversity topic comes up how little Asian representation there is in big name films. It’s always just white people or black people. It’s why Rose is so good in the Last Jedi :wub:


And when they are represented they are usually either terrorists (Middle East/India Asian) or kung fu experts (far East Asian). Although occasionally they will get to be doctors or maths geniuses.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Corazon de Leon » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:17 am

Preezy wrote:
myrrh heat than light wrote:
Preezy wrote:We should have a Chinese James Bond.


:lol:

I say that because it's often met with a "urr yeah maybe not" reaction when I've had conversations with people that say we should have a black Bond. The people I've spoken to seem to want to appear liberal or inclusive (in case there are any black people hiding in the bushes?), but they're not really, because if they were then they'd be happy to have a Chinese, Polynesian or Arabic Bond as well. It's the pushing of a very particular race to be Bond, rather than any race, that ticks me off.


No issue with any of them. Best actor for the role, regardless of ethnicity.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by more heat than light » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:58 am

Female James Bond?

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by The Watching Artist » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:16 pm

myrrh heat than light wrote:Female James Bond?

and she should rape someone who has been sexually abused in the shower

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Moggy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:52 pm

myrrh heat than light wrote:Female James Bond?


On that one I would say no. The character of James Bond is a male, I can’t see any reason to change that without completely changing the entire character.

A Black or Asian James Bond doesn’t require a complete and utter rewrite of the character, a female James Bond would.

A female spy movie set in the same universe as Bond would be fine.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by more heat than light » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:53 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
myrrh heat than light wrote:Female James Bond?


On that one I would say no. The character of James Bond is a male, I can’t see any reason to change that without completely changing the entire character.

A Black or Asian James Bond doesn’t require a complete and utter rewrite of the character, a female James Bond would.

A female spy movie set in the same universe as Bond would be fine.


Pfft, sexist.

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PostRe: Movie News/Discussion Thread 2
by Moggy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:03 pm

myrrh heat than light wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
myrrh heat than light wrote:Female James Bond?


On that one I would say no. The character of James Bond is a male, I can’t see any reason to change that without completely changing the entire character.

A Black or Asian James Bond doesn’t require a complete and utter rewrite of the character, a female James Bond would.

A female spy movie set in the same universe as Bond would be fine.


Pfft, sexist.


I have never denied it.

Some characters are defined by who they are in certain ways.

Bond is basically just a serial shagger who goes around the world shagging beautiful ladies and occasionally saves the world while doing it. He’s not defined by skin colour in any way, but he is defined by being a he.

Doctor Who is a shapeshifting alien. He/she can be any race or sex without any real changes needed to the character.

Black Panther is an African superhero whose title is passed down from one to another. I see no reason that a female couldn’t be Black Panther one day, but I don’t think a white or Asian person could play the role.

Robin Hood is a British folkhero set over 700 years ago. This is a role that I think would have to be white male (or a Costner) to make any sense.

I guess there are no hard and fast rules and clever writing could open up roles to different sexes/races, but I think some roles are far more easy to change than others.


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