NHS England hit by cyber attack, phone and IT systems down

Just remember, when you hear that expert on BBC News say the NHS "hasn't" spent enough on IT to protect itself, "couldn't" is a much more apt term.

Dowbocop wrote:Just remember, when you hear that expert on BBC News say the NHS "hasn't" spent enough on IT to protect itself, "couldn't" is a much more apt term.

I seem to recall Private Eye reporting a while back that most NHS computers were still running XP because they didn't want to pay to upgrade.

Memento Mori wrote:

Dowbocop wrote:Just remember, when you hear that expert on BBC News say the NHS "hasn't" spent enough on IT to protect itself, "couldn't" is a much more apt term.

I seem to recall Private Eye reporting a while back that most NHS computers were still running XP because they didn't want to pay to upgrade.

They also ended the extended support agreement with Microsoft a couple of years ago I believe.

Memento Mori wrote:

Dowbocop wrote:Just remember, when you hear that expert on BBC News say the NHS "hasn't" spent enough on IT to protect itself, "couldn't" is a much more apt term.

I seem to recall Private Eye reporting a while back that most NHS computers were still running XP because they didn't want to pay to upgrade.

It was true a few years ago, bit not so much now. NHS England bought extended support for XP for the NHS so they were still covered for vulnerability stuff etc.

Most are now 7, the issue wasn't cost of upgrading most had 7 licenses and up etc but more that many national and clinical applications wouldn't support 7 or higher because clinical software providers are a special level of gooseberry fool!

For example the standard java version in the NHS is java 6 update 34!

The problem is that a chain is as strong as its weakest link. So long as their are some outdated PCs that are not updated they can act as attack surfaces onto the network. On top of that the management know nothing about the technology and outsource to whoever quotes them the lowest price; which means unreliable systems and almost no support.

My own PC is becoming kind of a headache because there are some new services that won't run on it now and I constantly have to ask colleagues to do things for me. I have called our IT department several times and nothing has happened so I've pretty much given up at this point. I miss working private sector so much! In my old job I could have asked for a new computer and gotten one the next day. Here they cant even afford new paint to cover the damp stains on the ceiling.

Dowbocop wrote:Just remember, when you hear that expert on BBC News say the NHS "hasn't" spent enough on IT to protect itself, "couldn't" is a much more apt term.

Trust me, the NHS not spending money on I.T isn't always about a limited budget, it's also people being bloody stupid and not realising what happens if you don't upgrade. I have worked alongside a lot of large companies who are just bloody cheap and think they can continue on old hardware and software until of course everything breaks.

Yeah IT is way underfunded, and wages are pitifully low making it very hard to keep real skill in IT teams, so you get the spanners that can't do the most basic of things because there is no one else to hire as anyone worth having leaves.

The constant "money for front line services" needs to change, nurses doctors etc are important but more money is needed for the infrastructure that makes it all work!

When I worked for the NHS (Going back to 2009) there were plenty of critical apps in use by Hospitals and GP surgeries that were 16-bit DOS applications.
Most of the infrastructure for the trust I worked for was Windows XP and Server 2000.

There is a trust in Brighton still on an NT domain!

I should be surprised.

Should.

Errkal wrote:Yeah IT is way underfunded, and wages are pitifully low making it very hard to keep real skill in IT teams, so you get the spanners that can't do the most basic of things because there is no one else to hire as anyone worth having leaves.

The constant "money for front line services" needs to change, nurses doctors etc are important but more money is needed for the infrastructure that makes it all work!

I agree, it's like training a load of marines then giving them flintlocks and horses. It's obviously very difficult though to spin investment in infrastructure when people are waiting in corridors in A&E. And there is a crisis in staffing in the NHS, so who will use these ultra-safe machines to treat the patients? The contingency plans for yesterday were to use pens and paper. There are no contingency plans for having no doctors and nurses!

The answer to both problems is simple: more money, because both things are needed. Not ministers chiding the NHS and preaching about "learning lessons" while they systematically underfund the service to levels that are unsafe for both patients and data.

Lagamorph wrote:When I worked for the NHS (Going back to 2009) there were plenty of critical apps in use by Hospitals and GP surgeries that were 16-bit DOS applications.
Most of the infrastructure for the trust I worked for was Windows XP and Server 2000.

I don't know about all the computer systems in an NHS trust because I'm not an IT worker like most of you guys are. Pretty much everywhere I go has Windows 7 in the clinical rooms now. However, if you've got an MRI scanner that only runs on XP, you don't really have a choice about using XP. You can't not use the kit, and you can't not network it...

Dowbocop wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:When I worked for the NHS (Going back to 2009) there were plenty of critical apps in use by Hospitals and GP surgeries that were 16-bit DOS applications.
Most of the infrastructure for the trust I worked for was Windows XP and Server 2000.

I don't know about all the computer systems in an NHS trust because I'm not an IT worker like most of you guys are. Pretty much everywhere I go has Windows 7 in the clinical rooms now. However, if you've got an MRI scanner that only runs on XP, you don't really have a choice about using XP. You can't not use the kit, and you can't not network it...

The other issue is custom applications that were written by "John from IT" about 10 years previously, and John had then left 9 years ago, but the application had been getting used ever since with nobody actually knowing how it worked because there was zero documentation.

It was frankly shocking how much critical software there was floating around that was completely unsupported because it was either custom written by someone long gone or by companies that had long since gone under or given up supporting it.

Lagamorph wrote:

Dowbocop wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:When I worked for the NHS (Going back to 2009) there were plenty of critical apps in use by Hospitals and GP surgeries that were 16-bit DOS applications.
Most of the infrastructure for the trust I worked for was Windows XP and Server 2000.

I don't know about all the computer systems in an NHS trust because I'm not an IT worker like most of you guys are. Pretty much everywhere I go has Windows 7 in the clinical rooms now. However, if you've got an MRI scanner that only runs on XP, you don't really have a choice about using XP. You can't not use the kit, and you can't not network it...

The other issue is custom applications that were written by "John from IT" about 10 years previously, and John had then left 9 years ago, but the application had been getting used ever since with nobody actually knowing how it worked because there was zero documentation.

It was frankly shocking how much critical software there was floating around that was completely unsupported because it was either custom written by someone long gone or by companies that had long since gone under or given up supporting it.

Coincidentally, my dad's called John and he used to write those sort of programs for the council before he retired

Theoretically shouldn't those programs be rock hard to hack seeing as even the current custodians don't understand them?

Nissan Factory in Sunderland has shut down due to the attack.

Shame that this is linked to the NSA not making Microsoft aware of the vunreability and the NSA won't be held accountable at all.

A security guy has found that by registering a certain domain he has activated a killswitch in this ransomware that stops further new cases.

https://www.malwaretech.com/2017/05/how ... tacks.html

Edit: Just to clarify, this only stops one variant of this attack but the exploit is still there and there are lots of others around so you still need to get patched. The one I saw at work didn't have the red interface seen in the NHS attack, instead the attackers just left a txt file with a website link.

satriales wrote:A security guy has found that by registering a certain domain he has activated a killswitch in this ransomware that stops further new cases.

What a hero!

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

satriales wrote:A security guy has found that by registering a certain domain he has activated a killswitch in this ransomware that stops further new cases.

What a hero!

Yeah ive just been reading about it. You could imagine though him registering the domain and then an hour later security services kicking his door down thinking that he was responsible for the whole thing.