BioShock: The Collection - Available now

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Saint of Killers
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PostRe: BioShock: The Harvesting - WARNING: The Empire Strikes Back spoilers
by Saint of Killers » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:06 am

First game had a almost perfect gameplay loop. 2nd game: Take down Big Daddy, follow marker on a lengthy trek to a very specific corpse (all of a sudden the other splicer corpses aren't good enough), let Little Sister do her thing, defend LS, repeat the whole process, follow regular marker to LS vent.

strawberry float. That.

I had every intention for playing BioShock 2 (and saving the Little Sisters!) but the new loop has put me right off it. Here's hoping X-COM 2 arrives today. (And that it doesn't have any unnecessary gameplay padding.)
| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: BioShock: The Harvesting - WARNING: The Empire Strikes Back spoilers
by Knoyleo » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:28 am

Before you discard B2 completely, give Minerva's Den a go. Absolutely brilliant, and not a giant escort mission.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Harvesting - WARNING: The Empire Strikes Back spoilers
by Saint of Killers » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:39 am

Knoyleo wrote:Before you discard B2 completely, give Minerva's Den a go. Absolutely brilliant, and not a giant escort mission.


Will do.

Will save that first LS again, and then give the DLC a bash. I am guessing the Infinite remaster will have Burial at Sea DLC on it, too? Will play that as well. See what the fuss is about.
| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: BioShock: The Harvesting - WARNING: The Empire Strikes Back spoilers
by Knoyleo » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:49 am

It should do.

I wasn't a huge fan of Burial at Sea. It worked as an Elizabeth waifu simulator, but that was about all. I don't think they did a great job bringing Rapture back to life, but I know plenty of people loved it, so wait and see how you get on.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Harvesting - WARNING: The Empire Strikes Back spoilers
by Photek » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:56 am

How much of Bioshock 2 have you played? I think going from B1 to B2 straight away may lead to it feeling all too samey. The sequel was released over 2 years after Bioshock so for many the return to rapture was perfectly fine.

Also, you have to understand the the first few hours of Bioshock 2 are not representative of the game as a whole, the first hour in particular is pretty poor. When you get to Ryan Amusements (a theme park dedicated to Ryan) the game only impoves. Pauper's Drop, Siren's Alley and onwards are up with the original's places if not even more impressive.

Bioshock 2 also has the benefit of a story that crescendo's at the end, not like Bioshock 1's which lags after THAT MOMENT. The story is interesting, some aspects FAR more interesting than B1's, it's a little less ham fisted in it's dystopian universe, the characters have more nuance. In the lore though Bioshock 2 is a sides story, it has zero to no impact, or have anything to do (bar location) with B1 and Infinite, especially burial at sea DLC that all connect to one another.

For that reason alone, I'm keeping B2 for last, It's better than Infinite but to keep rapture from reaching saturation point, the sunny Columbia is a welcome respite.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Harvesting - WARNING: The Empire Strikes Back spoilers
by Saint of Killers » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:15 am

Well, I'm on the bit where you have your first Big Daddy/Little Sister encounter. (El Dorado?) I understand the opening sections before that are just training missions, that portion of the game wasn't the issue, neither is my playing 2 directly after 1. It's the padding introduced by 2 (trekking LS trail, fighting off waves of splicers as she harvests, possibly doing that multiple times per LS and then trekking to a vent) I'm taking umbrage with. I mean that is indicative of gameplay to come as regards to obtaining ADAM, yes?
| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: BioShock: The Harvesting - WARNING: The Empire Strikes Back spoilers
by Photek » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:28 am

Saint of Killers wrote:I mean that is indicative of gameplay to come as regards to obtaining ADAM, yes?

Yes it is but you get a large array of 'trap' weapons and plasmids which leads to an almost tower defense meta game later on. It's also optional. You didn't have to kill any big daddies in Bioshock 1 (bar 1), and you don't have to engage in defending the Little Sisters in Bioshock 2. I'm saving all the little sisters in my play through now cos I didn't do it before.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Saint of Killers » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:34 am

But I still have to trek to the splicer corpse, still have fight off splicers, possibly repeat and then trek to a vent. What's the downside to not actively looking after the LS while she's harvesting?
| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Photek » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:45 am

Saint of Killers wrote:But I still have to trek to the splicer corpse, still have fight off splicers, possibly repeat and then trek to a vent. What's the downside to not actively looking after the LS while she's harvesting?

Whats the downside to being killed by a Big Daddy? It's the same deal. If you don't have the ammo or haven't set up well you'll constantly respawn in a vita chamber.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Saint of Killers » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:47 am

So what was it you meant by this:

Photek wrote:...and you don't have to engage in defending the Little Sisters in Bioshock 2.
| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Photek » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:49 am

Saint of Killers wrote:So what was it you meant by this:

Photek wrote:...and you don't have to engage in defending the Little Sisters in Bioshock 2.

It's been years since I played it but yeah as far as I can remember you DON'T have to defend the little sisters. You won't get ADAM of course but its the same deal in B1. Plus I don't recall LOOKING for bodies to get adam, you'd find them about while your do whatever it is you have to. Just like B1, you'd see a BD walking arouhnd. You can ignore the BD's or kill them, you can ignore the bodies or defend them. I faintly remember getting a tool to help you find the bodies also.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Saint of Killers » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:55 am

So everything I said before stands.

As I said, will save the first LS again (I done goofed by not saving the game after saving her at vent and then going on to die -chambers are off) and if, by some miracle, it feels like less of a slog, then I will carry on with it. If not, it'll be BS2 DLC and that's me done with it. Can't complain too much though ( :slol: ) as I didn't expect to enjoy the first game anywhere near as much as I did.
| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Photek » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:57 am

The point you missed was that saving the first little sister is miles away from saving your 7th or 8th because of the weapons and plasmids you'll have by then.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Saint of Killers » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:00 am

That I'll be more powerful is a given.
| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Knoyleo » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:03 am

Photek's got a point, some of the hordes of splicers you fight off in the later game can be great fun, because of the opportunities to scope out an area beforehand, lay traps, exploit the environment, and so on. I can still clearly remember defending a Little Sister in one room that had two entrances, from a corridor that ran around the outside. I'd hacked a couple of sentry bots, laid traps, and there was oil on the floor somewhere, so when she started harvesting, all hell broke loose. Tons of splicers hurling themselves headlong into traps, fire, and bullets, whilst I largely got to sit back and watch, polishing off the odd one that got through. Just after it all triggers, there was a jukebox in the room that sparked into life, playing "How much is that doggie in the window?" as all this chaos was going on. :lol:

Genuinely brilliant moment.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Photek » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:08 am

Knoyleo is bang on. That's exactly the kind of stuff that can happen, it's very satisfying to see your traps all working while you barely have to shoot at all.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Saint of Killers » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:10 am

The whole tower defence like element isn't winning me over either. If that happened directly after besting the BD then that would be fine, but the trekking... the trekking I cannot get over. Which is weird because usually I love exploring for the sake of it. (I probably saw every nook and cranny of Rapture the first game had to offer.)
| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Photek » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:13 am

I'm telling you, you're getting Rapture Fatigue.
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Fade » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:02 pm

I'd say so too. The second game plays a lot better than the first
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PostRe: BioShock: The Collection - Available now
by Saint of Killers » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:18 pm

If I felt fatigued by BS then why would I look to play its DLC's? Fact is I was actively looking forward to BioShock 2, and was really enjoying it up to the BD fight (I was thinking ahead to saving the Little Sisters, hoping I'd get to fight Sinclair and wondering what would happen to "my" LS if I harvested the others -my guess being I save her but she ends up turning "bad"). Everything I played after BD fight was hot garbage. Believe me or not, but that's how I felt after it was done.

Some things were definitely better in 2 (hacking, hacking weapon, er were you able to use plasmid and traditional weapon at same time in first game? If not, that's the single biggest improvement), but the padding strawberry floated up what I found to be an almost perfect gameplay loop.

Kinda getting bored of talking about it now. So unless someone says something compelling enough to warrant a reply, I'll leave it at that.
| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)

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