BioShock: The Collection - Available now

You say that as if a plot only needs to focus on one core thing and just get that right. Even if the theme of racism and segregation is a side plot (and that's arguable, given that it's probably the main focus of the first third of the game), it's still undercooked and, after the first hour or so, badly developed.

That sums up the game's plot in generally to be honest. I really liked the first third or so, but then it gradually went a bit downhill.

And by the end, those opening moments of throwing a baseball at an interracial couple, going "behind the curtain" to find a swathe of black labourers keep Columbia afloat and the game's portrayal of the Chinese and Native Americans, well, they same like they were from an entirely different game. That's a failing of the game's plot in my eyes, that it introduces such things and then discards them as it bends over backwards and in on itself in an effort to sustain a "clever" plot about multiple timelines (not time travel, by the way).

Fade wrote:

Photek wrote:That Critique video is ridiculous, im only 5mins in and the bullshit is off the scale, complaining that the N word isn't used, no lynching or RAPING of black women, jesus christ, it's a game, the press/media would be all over it. Also complaining about simple button prompts in the ball throwing section, what an absolute plank. The fact some of you think these are valid complaints is worrying.

I was going to say.

It's a science fiction game about a floating city, a giant mechanic bird and magic powers.

You don't watch the Nazi scenes in X-men and complain they're not being racist enough

The game's central plot is time travel, not racism.

Unfortunately, the game probably would have been better if it had got rid of the time travel nonsense, and just stuck to a story about an ultra-racist cloud city.

At this point I would remind folk that I'm not Infinites biggest fan, I also loved the first third and felt the last third was bizarre and basically not fun, why comstocks ghost wife has to come back 4 times is stupid, it doesn't further the narrative, it just makes an annoying boss fight more annoying, it was obviously was put in for padding.

However, for all its faults I still loved it because of a few things. It looks GORGEOUS I mean, really gorgeous, the first third of the game really is stunning, further on in the game it can have salient moments in which you get to explore columbia further and although many of the streets are now red and dark compared to the pristine start, some of the buildings interiors remain wonderfully detailed. These high points added to one of the best endings I've ever seen in a game makes it a must play (again)

There are legitimate things to criticize in infinite, not pushing the racism card further and complaining about a screen prompt means that that video is less a critique and more an exercise in nitpicking.

You should watch more of the video then, there are some very good points.

I too loved Infinite when it came out (even the story, which is bollocks in retrospect), but it has a lot of flaws.

I liked Infinite, but I thought the ending was gooseberry fool. Like really crap, and the whole you are what's is face could be seen a mile off.

Photek wrote:At this point I would remind folk that I'm not Infinites biggest fan, I also loved the first third and felt the last third was bizarre and basically not fun, why comstocks ghost wife has to come back 4 times is stupid, it doesn't further the narrative, it just makes an annoying boss fight more annoying, it was obviously was put in for padding.

However, for all its faults I still loved it because of a few things. It looks GORGEOUS I mean, really gorgeous, the first third of the game really is stunning, further on in the game it can have salient moments in which you get to explore columbia further and although many of the streets are now red and dark compared to the pristine start, some of the buildings interiors remain wonderfully detailed. These high points added to one of the best endings I've ever seen in a game makes it a must play (again)

There are legitimate things to criticize in infinite, not pushing the racism card further and complaining about a screen prompt means that that video is less a critique and more an exercise in nitpicking.

Yup. He covers the reason for that in the video.

Fade wrote:

Photek wrote:That Critique video is ridiculous, im only 5mins in and the bullshit is off the scale, complaining that the N word isn't used, no lynching or RAPING of black women, jesus christ, it's a game, the press/media would be all over it. Also complaining about simple button prompts in the ball throwing section, what an absolute plank. The fact some of you think these are valid complaints is worrying.

I was going to say.

It's a science fiction game about a floating city, a giant mechanic bird and magic powers.

You don't watch the Nazi scenes in X-men and complain they're not being racist enough

The game's central plot is time travel, not racism.

But you would surely point out if the guards weren't behaving like Nazi soldiers, though. And that's the YTers issue with it; the devs chose to have the game set in a racist period only to then do a piss poor job of properly portraying the era it is based on, and then to top it off they ditch it completely for a nonsensical time travel plot which doesn't even make sense. (If what Matthewmatosis said about that element of the story is correct.)

Would people rather games stuck to stories of angry men avenging wife/child/planet/race? A game based on some of the most popular and interesting theories of physics and doing a pretty good job of it should be applauded.

Ord wrote:Eurogamer wrote a nice wee retrospective on Bioshock: Infinite here -

Whatever happened during those five years at Irrational, at some point down the line the heart was cut out of Infinite, resulting in a shooter that ponders an awful lots of subjects, but doesn't really care about any of them.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016- ... te-hold-up

That's good.

Criticising a bloody uprising is fair enough, but to tar racism and revolution with the same brush and then dismiss the entire topic? That isn't just oversimplification, that's verging on cowardice.

Ouch.

Would love to see more sites go back and do stuff like this for older games where people were clearly all too caught up in the hype at the time.

Hime wrote:Would people rather games stuck to stories of angry men avenging wife/child/planet/race? A game based on some of the most popular and interesting theories of physics and doing a pretty good job of it should be applauded.

Didn't Infinite do that too, though?

I found it far too confusing to know if it did a good job or not. The critique video suggests not: https://youtu.be/VdNhwb7iuI4?t=14m52s

Saint of Killers wrote:

Hime wrote:Would people rather games stuck to stories of angry men avenging wife/child/planet/race? A game based on some of the most popular and interesting theories of physics and doing a pretty good job of it should be applauded.

Didn't Infinite do that too, though?

I found it far too confusing to know if it did a good job or not. The critique video suggests not: https://youtu.be/VdNhwb7iuI4?t=14m52s

Could people just list their reasons rather than posting links to the same video over and over again?

Hime wrote:Would people rather games stuck to stories of angry men avenging wife/child/planet/race? A game based on some of the most popular and interesting theories of physics and doing a pretty good job of it should be applauded.

It already has been.



But this isn't the Portal thread.

Photek wrote:Could people just list their reasons rather than posting links to the same video over and over again?

It's a average shooter which got tossed off over by the press a little to fervently.

Mafro wrote:

Ord wrote:Eurogamer wrote a nice wee retrospective on Bioshock: Infinite here -

Whatever happened during those five years at Irrational, at some point down the line the heart was cut out of Infinite, resulting in a shooter that ponders an awful lots of subjects, but doesn't really care about any of them.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016- ... te-hold-up

That's good.

Criticising a bloody uprising is fair enough, but to tar racism and revolution with the same brush and then dismiss the entire topic? That isn't just oversimplification, that's verging on cowardice.

Ouch.

Would love to see more sites go back and do stuff like this for older games where people were clearly all too caught up in the hype at the time.

That or exploitation of a sensitive subject matter.

That's your opinion Saint, I've stated the reasons why I like it without a strawberry floating video either.

Photek wrote:That's your opinion Saint, I've stated the reasons why I like it without a strawberry floating video either.

gg.

Brerlappin wrote:As an FPS, at its core its incredibly average

I'd tend to agree, it has some mechanics (assassinations from skyrails, vigors) that shake it up a little but never really gives you a place or reason to switch up weapons and vigors like Bioshock.

Brerlappin wrote:Its story is nonsensical and much like MGS4 where everything is hand waved away with the explanation of "because nanomachines", BI tries to explain everything away with "because timelines"

I thinks this is very harsh on Infinite, I've never played MGS4 but if it's anything like 2, then it's an absolute mess.

Brerlappin wrote:It squanders all of its best ideas (dangers of Racism/Nationalism/Religion)

It also deals with capitalism & Physics Theory as well, some things aren't followed through which is disappointing but how many games would tackle several lofty points? For that reason alone I think it should be applauded. It may squander some of these ideas sure, but it puts them in the game and progresses all of them to some degree.

Brerlappin wrote:It squanders its most interesting character (songbird) as an NPC that turns up to help you in literally one fight and thats it

I disagree that Songbird is the most interesting character, the Luteces' Elisabeth and deWitt's characters interested me, "give us the girl and wipe away the debt" was an interesting opener. The Songbird is just an awful big daddy, it was devoid of charm or nuance or even a back story, just a ruthless killing machine.

Brerlappin wrote:The "tears" are worthless. Theyre essentially just bits of cover with a swirly effect covering them

Again I agree, in terms of combat the tears are awful, useless really. I do however like them when they are used in cut scenes and in the story, some gorgeous sights and sounds to be seen.

Brerlappin wrote:And its cardinal sin, is that it thinks its the cleverest, smartest, swinging dick in videogames but its C-Tier "infinite timelines" garbage.

According to who? It got over the top reviews, hardly Irrationals fault is it?

Saint of Killers wrote:

Hime wrote:Would people rather games stuck to stories of angry men avenging wife/child/planet/race? A game based on some of the most popular and interesting theories of physics and doing a pretty good job of it should be applauded.

Didn't Infinite do that too, though?

I found it far too confusing to know if it did a good job or not. The critique video suggests not: https://youtu.be/VdNhwb7iuI4?t=14m52s

I haven't watched the video but from memory it did a good job of getting the concepts of Schrodinger's Cat and Everett's Many-Worlds Interpretation into the story. That's good enough for me to not tarnish the story, especially relative to the stories in every other video game.

Knoyleo wrote:

Hime wrote:Would people rather games stuck to stories of angry men avenging wife/child/planet/race? A game based on some of the most popular and interesting theories of physics and doing a pretty good job of it should be applauded.

It already has been.



But this isn't the Portal thread.

What popular theories were used in Portal?

Gravity and momentum?

Brerlappin wrote:And its cardinal sin, is that it thinks its the cleverest, smartest, swinging dick in videogames but its C-Tier "infinite timelines" garbage. The infinite timeline plot in Community, a strawberry floating sitcom, was better than BI

I think that's one of the main reasons it got the scores it did. Reviewers thinking it was some sort of high-concept, pinnacle of the genre that made them feel smart.

Nonsense like this