Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door Remake | NSW | 23/05/2024 | PREVIEWS/OVERVIEW TRAILER OUT NOW!

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Wow I can't believe they're selling tears of the kingdom 4K remastered for only £90!!!

With current rates of inflation? Cheap at the price.

Tomous wrote:I do think it's weird how this is priced compared to Metroid Prime Remastered, when they've extremely similar.

Nintendo's attitude to Prime Remastered was weird all over to be honest, shadow dropping it without giving it a proper build up was not the release it deserved.

Metroid Prime is the gold standard of pricing for a remake for me. £35, is pretty fair for a high effort remake and its one of the best looking Switch games.

MKvsDK, the Peach game, Paper Mario, Luigi Mansion 2 - all day one's for me. 3 of which are remakes each at basically £50 a go.

For Paper Mario I'd pay £50, but £40 is definitely a good price. Not sure about I feel for Luigi Mansion being priced £50 when Prime was £35. I'll reserve judgement - My eyes but is Luigi a prettied up remaster of the 3DS game or are they rebuilding it using Luigi Mansion 3 engine? If the latter - fair enough

Jezo wrote:

ITSMILNER wrote:

I hope those easy changes are optional

I assume it'll be similar to the difficulty modes they had in Mario RPG - one that allows people to focus on story over RPG

I'm down with this.

Re. Easy modes in general;
- All games should have accessibility modes - Part of an accessibility mode would be to have an easy mode. Easy mode for players for people who are differently abled, kids and people who just do not wish to get too into the game / just enjoy the story etc
- I'd extend the above to 'in most cases having difficulty modes isn't a bad thing' people should be able to enjoy games as they please
- Expert or Hard modes on platformers are always welcome - I generally play harder modes on platformers. Just because platformers are the one genre I am inclined to get git gud at, appreciate others may feel the same about other genres - so they're welcome too
- Party and sports games are ok to have assist modes - Ideally assist on and assist off should be able to play together without one being intrusive to the other group in terms of dis/advantage. MK is balanced well
- Open World Rockstar / Ubisoft type games shouldn't have difficulty modes (other than accessibility) - these should generally be played as the developers intended. Remember Horizons had loads of difficulty modes (if you are going to have loads at least make sure you have an odd number of difficulties so you can pick the one exactly in the middle). You don't play RDR to be challenged - though I did wish it was just a little more difficult or a little more easy to die or fail a mission - put a game in this beautiful world you created! This isn't rectified by difficulty modes - just make the base game harder and give it an assist mode.
- Metroid Prime benefitted from having option of easier settings - Games like TLOU some may just want to enjoy the story (related TLOU games are fantastic for accessibility which is very welcome). Prime I played on normal settings, but Prime 4 I think I would be tempted to use an easy setting (in terms of making enemies easier to kill). Just because, for me Prime should be 'difficult' it should be 'complicated'. For me, Prime isn't a shooting game, it more of a puzzle game - the game was knowing where to go, what to do etc, because of all the backtracking - shooting enemies whilst I was trying to work out puzzles or where to go was just a bit annoying. I would have had more fun if I played on easy, the enemies are still there but as sort of fodder - something to do whilst I enjoy the world and the main game of navigating it.

Anyway, I'd be up for focussing on story rather than RPG.

I am a little concerned how much I'm going to enjoy this game. Mainly because I've always been rubbish at RPG battle mechanics. I loved Origami King, but haven't really played TTYD; it's interesting to me many wish for Paper Mario to return to its more RPG roots. Is this because people preferred turn based battle to the twisty ring system in Origami King? If so is the turn based system (I played a little of Paper Mario 64, which I assume TTYD system is similar too) really more compelling than the ring system? Whereas I found the turn based system a little boring, I liked the ring system, I like little puzzles in general - but also unlike Paper Mario 64 it wasn't as sort of prominent, you could engage with it but the stakes were lower (in general choose to avoid if you wished) but wasn't entirely disposable.

---------------------------------

It's interesting people who loved TTYD dislike the newer games. I enjoyed Origami more as a kind of hang out game with the ring system as a little mini game on top; just walking through this beautiful inter-connected world, enjoying and engaging with the scenery, each area was so packed with things to do and see and explore, watching/playing the set-pieces, enjoying talking to the characters and taking in the story. TTYD seems it had many of these aspects, therefore is Origami not quite a natural evolution of the older games? Other than the battle systems and also the newer ones are set in open 3D spaces you can run around in rather 2D where your game is constantly broken up with being dropped into a samey battles every few minutes (which to me seems like an improvement).

I'll of course reserve judgement until I play TTYD, but interested in how different the newer games are to the older ones and why they are considered better.

Barnsy! wrote:

Tomous wrote:I do think it's weird how this is priced compared to Metroid Prime Remastered, when they've extremely similar.

Nintendo's attitude to Prime Remastered was weird all over to be honest, shadow dropping it without giving it a proper build up was not the release it deserved.

Metroid Prime is the gold standard of pricing for a remake for me. £35, is pretty fair for a high effort remake and its one of the best looking Switch games.

MKvsDK, the Peach game, Paper Mario, Luigi Mansion 2 - all day one's for me. 3 of which are remakes each at basically £50 a go.

MK v DK was £40 not £50. Nevertheless, that pricing compared to Prime is absolutely crazy

Herdanos wrote:

Robbo-92 wrote:One thing I hope they add, that they won’t, is a chapter select after beating the game, sometimes I just want to do redo my favourite chapters again without playing the entire game again.

Yes! I would possibly consider getting this if this feature were in the game. I'd replay the train chapter over and over!

Balladeer wrote:The train and the Glitz Pit. All-time gaming set-pieces.

It’d be chapters 3-6 on repeat for me.

Tomous wrote:I do think it's weird how this is priced compared to Metroid Prime Remastered, when they've extremely similar.

Nintendo's attitude to Prime Remastered was weird all over to be honest, shadow dropping it without giving it a proper build up was not the release it deserved.

Shows how they treat the Metroid franchise compared to Mario, sadly. Metroid Prime Remastered deserved at least a couple of weeks being advertised on social media at the least.

Robbo-92 wrote:
It’d be chapters 3-6 on repeat for me.

Yeah, chapter 2 is the only one that (IIRC) was a bit of a grind at times. Chapters 5 and 6 are my favourites.

Barnsy! wrote:I'll of course reserve judgement until I play TTYD, but interested in how different the newer games are to the older ones and why they are considered better.

(cracks knuckles)

Okay! I didn't play Origami King, but I did play Sticker Star and dropped off the franchise there. Here are some things TTYD had that SS didn't.
- An actual RPG with stats that increase and other party members.
- Regular battles meant something. You could get exp through battles and no other means, encouraging you to take on those fights.
- Non-disposable attacks. I mean. Strewth.
- Quirky character design, including edits of existing Nintendo characters (i.e. new Goomba models, alternative Toads). Less slavish adherence to the 'Nintendo canon', more irreverence allowed.
- Better writing!
- Better set-pieces!
- The opportunity to play as Bowser! By extension, a new and actually threatening antagonist.

I understand Origami King has upped the writing and maybe the set-pieces since Sticker Star, doesn't have you fighting Bowser, and doesn't have disposable attacks. It still doesn't have Nintendo character model edits though IIRC, not really? And I've only read about the one party member, suggesting that others either don't exist (beyond Olivia) or aren't worth talking about. Finally, it's not an RPG. It still doesn't have you gaining anything important through regular battles. That's an absolute killer for me.

TBH though, I'm not approaching this from the angle of, 'Why is it better than Origami King?' I can't, I didn't play Origami King. I think TTYD is an absolutely excellent game in its own right. The fact that it's my favourite of the Paper Mario series is kind of incidental when it's also my favourite of ever other game bar one.

You'd be hard pushed to find many Nintendo games that aren't better than Sticker Star.

While a wonderful game in it's own right, it's fair to say Origami King isn't an RPG so if that's what you want, then you'll be disappointed.

If TTYD sells well, it'll be interesting to see the direction they go with the next PM game on Switch 2.

Sticker Star put me off the series till now really, never bothered with Colour Splash or Origami King. I'm really hoping TTYD does sell really well.

Herdanos wrote:

Robbo-92 wrote:
It’d be chapters 3-6 on repeat for me.

Yeah, chapter 2 is the only one that (IIRC) was a bit of a grind at times. Chapters 5 and 6 are my favourites.

Chapters 2 and 7 were the slower paced ones for me, but the start of chapter 7 (or is it between chapters 6 and 7?) has a lot of backtracking, which could be made a little better in the remake.

Origami King was great except for the battle system which, while a decent idea, held the game back imo.

It was miles ahead of Sticker Star though and Colour Splash……if I were to rank Paper Mario’s

TTYD
Super Paper Mario
Paper Mario 64
Origami King
Colour Splash
Sticker Star

Yeah TOK battle system was the weakest part of the game. It was was novel at first but didn't have enough depth to keep itself interesting for the whole game. It became a chore.

The boss battles were better although possibly helped by the fact they happened much less.

ITSMILNER wrote:Origami King was great except for the battle system which, while a decent idea, held the game back imo.

It was miles ahead of Sticker Star though and Colour Splash……if I were to rank Paper Mario’s

TTYD
Super Paper Mario
Paper Mario 64
Origami King
Colour Splash
Sticker Star

From what I've played, it'd be,

The Thousand Year Door
Super Paper Mario
Paper Mario (only played about an hour last year before moving on, but even that small amount of time was loads better than Sticker Star!)
Sticker Star

Not played Colour Splash or Origami King, Colour Splash looked lovely on the Wii U though, not that graphics make a game of course.

Robbo-92 wrote:From what I've played, it'd be,

The Thousand Year Door
Super Paper Mario
Paper Mario (only played about an hour last year before moving on, but even that small amount of time was loads better than Sticker Star!)
Sticker Star

Not played Colour Splash or Origami King, Colour Splash looked lovely on the Wii U though, not that graphics make a game of course.

Go back to the first game pls.

Balladeer wrote:

Barnsy! wrote:I'll of course reserve judgement until I play TTYD, but interested in how different the newer games are to the older ones and why they are considered better.

(cracks knuckles)

Okay! I didn't play Origami King, but I did play Sticker Star and dropped off the franchise there. Here are some things TTYD had that SS didn't.
- An actual RPG with stats that increase and other party members.
- Regular battles meant something. You could get exp through battles and no other means, encouraging you to take on those fights.

This is a pretty low bar for what makes an RPG. Stats that go up and battles that give EXP are pretty meaningless if they don't feed into actual reactive systems.

TTYD > PM64 >>> SPM > TOK

Not played the others

Jenuall wrote:

Balladeer wrote:- An actual RPG with stats that increase and other party members.
- Regular battles meant something. You could get exp through battles and no other means, encouraging you to take on those fights.

This is a pretty low bar for what makes an RPG. Stats that go up and battles that give EXP are pretty meaningless if they don't feed into actual reactive systems.

Yes, and it's a bar recent Paper Marios haven't met! Context man, context!

More generally I like the TTYD RPG system. Badges and special moves with action commands and the audience. It's not the main reason I'm here but it's still good.

All great points, Balla and everyone (@Balla thanks for taking the time to write that).

I think I'm perhaps just not into RPGs. Or maybe I am and just need to be hand-held into with them with the familiar faces from the Mario universe.

Reassuring to hear that the writing, story and characters are considered better - these things were the biggest draw of TOK, so if TTYD is better in these regards, great . Might end up loving TTYD, but eitherway I'll definitely have fun some with it and it will have elements I'll like. I'll take some convincing that the turn-based battle system is more fun or compelling than the ring system (but the former is at least apparently more necessary than the latter) but I'll see.

@balla, sounds like won't like TOK as much as TTYD but it might be nice to try one day if you get the chance. It definitely has nice story and characters. Again, the fact that the new games steered away from adding new characters wasn't a problem for me. You have little companions like the bob-bomb (though admittedly they don't have different abilities and are a bit more disposable) and though they're familiar face they're like new characters in that they're given more depth and character than other games.

Tomous wrote:
If TTYD sells well, it'll be interesting to see the direction they go with the next PM game on Switch 2.

Would be nice if they found a way to please both camps, but it seems like its quite difficult to do so with one group liking a chilled out adventure game and the other liking an RPG heavy game. I did think TOK, maybe treaded the line (it generally considered an improvement over newer entries) but it seems not.

Balladeer wrote: The fact that it's my favourite of the Paper Mario series is kind of incidental when it's also my favourite of ever other game bar one.

What was the first?

Mario Odyssey. I was a big Mario 64 head, and Odyssey kept the exploratory style and ladled on a tureen of imagination. Just utterly fantastic stuff.

Amazing Mario Odyssey is my favourite game too (or just slightly behind Tetris Effect) sorry I remember clearly you saying before now. Odyssey is wonderful, great taste.

Odyssey