(PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects

Anything to do with games at all.
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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:17 am

Karl wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:Once again for those in the cheap seats, this is the owner of the biggest market for PC games literally stating they are no longer monitoring their store for offensive and abusive content.

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, do you feel they're using the anime tiddies 'controversy' as a convenient excuse to simply blanket step back from all moderation duties?


I think this is undoubtedly what has happened.

People have been crying out for better moderation of Steam for years. Better as in valid. As in 'moderate asset flip games, moderate offensive content, moderate scams'. Make Steam a more effective and safe environment.

Valve then announced a blanket ban on "pornographic" content. This was akin to Twitter starting to ban accounts that used offensive language during the bot/nazi flood: the accounts that were actually the problem were not affected and a bunch of actively decent users were getting suspended.

Now, Valve have washed their hands of it. They've gone 'well, we tried to do something but it didn't work so now we're actively going to do nothing.' Which is the worst thing they could have done. This is giving asset flippers and scammers free reign, not to mention those who create school shooter simulators and the like. For a lot of tiny, one man developers this is devastating as a market already overly saturated with nonsense will now become exponentially worse, not to mention the fact that anything they put out there has a sizeable risk of simply being cloned or stolen.

Like I say, it's a lazy and reprehensible move from a company that some people still refuse to see as anything but the good guys.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Death's Head » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:48 am

Fortified free on Steam if anyone wants it.

Yes?
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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by jawafour » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:50 am

I very rarely step into the world of PC gaming and I know little about it nowdays.

But... even as an "outsider", I was under the impression that Valve was (in)famous for apparently allowing almost anything to be released on Steam; quality and morality issues weren't really factors. I'm surprised to hear Valve's claim that some form of curation was in place; and that even this seemingly minimal activity is now being - effectively - chucked out.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Jazzem » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:48 pm

Met wrote:I'm feeling like I'm the only one who's looking at this somewhat positively. If people want to play booby games let them play their booby games. I think Active Shooter was tasteless and a horrible idea, but it still deserves to exist as much as anything else.

The topic of quality control is completely different to the topic of censorship, and I'm all for quality control, which, yes, Valve is very lacking in. Censorship, which is what they seem to be stepping away from, as far as I can tell, does nothing but stifle creative freedom.

While a blanket approval of everything doesn't help their quality aspect, it's not them stepping away from it as Valve has never stepped up to quality control in the first place. It's a moot point. But the removal of censorship is a net positive.


Thing is though, stuff like Active Shooter being removed isn't so much censorship as it is deplatforming reprehensible, oftentimes bigoted material. Valve are well within their rights to not allow something like that on their service, and morally they're absolutely in the right to do so; last thing we want is to normalise such things and give them a platform.

Going to be pretty rotten if we see plenty more examples of that.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Karl » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:10 pm

Met wrote:Censorship, which is what they seem to be stepping away from, as far as I can tell, does nothing but stifle creative freedom.

Rightey wrote:I believe fewer restrictions when it comes to peoples ability to create games is a good thing.

But no-one is censoring games. What they were saying, previously, was "we're a shop and we don't want to endorse certain kinds of content by having it appear in our shop".

The creators of Kill All Black People Simulator (name chosen to be deliberately ridiculous, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's out there somewhere...) could still make the game and upload it to the Internet and link it on The_Donald for a trillion upvotes. They can even sell it, privately, to those people. But Valve obviously shouldn't endorse it by putting it on Steam. And having it appear in your shop is an endorsement. They can say "It's not an endorsement, it's an open platform", but what they really mean is "From now on we'll endorse almost literally anything".

And yeah Rightey you're right, Kill All Black People Simulator isn't going to by itself convince someone to join the KKK. But maybe it makes someone falling into an alt-right way of thinking a bit more comfortable with their choices and feelings. Maybe it makes black people who see the store page and see Valve not doing anything about it feel a little worse that day. If we consistently accept things that make that incremental difference, all those little things add up and turn into social movements and oppression.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Knoyleo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:28 pm

Karl wrote:The creators of Kill All Black People Simulator (name chosen to be deliberately ridiculous, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's out there somewhere...)



COMING SOON TO STEAM

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Knoyleo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:50 pm

Knoyleo wrote:Can't wait for the Jimquisition on this one.

And here it is



Spot on

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Pedz » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:15 pm

Karl wrote:
Met wrote:Censorship, which is what they seem to be stepping away from, as far as I can tell, does nothing but stifle creative freedom.

Rightey wrote:I believe fewer restrictions when it comes to peoples ability to create games is a good thing.

But no-one is censoring games. What they were saying, previously, was "we're a shop and we don't want to endorse certain kinds of content by having it appear in our shop".

The creators of Kill All Black People Simulator (name chosen to be deliberately ridiculous, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's out there somewhere...) could still make the game and upload it to the Internet and link it on The_Donald for a trillion upvotes. They can even sell it, privately, to those people. But Valve obviously shouldn't endorse it by putting it on Steam. And having it appear in your shop is an endorsement. They can say "It's not an endorsement, it's an open platform", but what they really mean is "From now on we'll endorse almost literally anything".

And yeah Rightey you're right, Kill All Black People Simulator isn't going to by itself convince someone to join the KKK. But maybe it makes someone falling into an alt-right way of thinking a bit more comfortable with their choices and feelings. Maybe it makes black people who see the store page and see Valve not doing anything about it feel a little worse that day. If we consistently accept things that make that incremental difference, all those little things add up and turn into social movements and oppression.


THEY WERE CENSORING ANIME TIDDIES KARL! ANIME TIDDIES.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Karl » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:19 pm

Pedz wrote:THEY WERE CENSORING ANIME TIDDIES KARL! ANIME TIDDIES.

:lol:

I think the undercurrent of misogyny in "big anime tiddy" games probably makes some women who see them in the shop feel very uncomfortable, but I am not personally offended by big anime tiddies. My only thought on them is that it's a bit crass.

I would rather they had a policy saying "anime tiddies, by popular demand, are OK but we'll still censor offensive content like school shooting simulators".

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Pedz » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:22 pm

I think a blanket let anything fly is a rather ridiculous move. Hopefully valve will step up and not allow gooseberry fool like that ethnic cleansing game on the store. It would be shocking if they did allow it.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Knoyleo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:50 pm

Notorious banana split, Notch, weighs in:



If only I could buy games from somewhere other than Steam. :cry:

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:12 pm

Knoyleo wrote:Notorious banana split, Notch, weighs in:



There you have it. If notch thinks it's a good idea, it's automatically a bucket of festering shite. Like him!

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Pedz » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:14 pm

OK, guys, are there any people in the industry that are likeable? Everytime someone posts about an indie dev, or a youtube 'personality' it comes out they are in fact... banana splits.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Knoyleo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:17 pm

Pedz wrote:OK, guys, are there any people in the industry that are likeable?

No

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Knoyleo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:19 pm

Notch is like king of the neckbeards, though.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Albear » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:26 pm

What did notch do that makes people hate him so much?

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Lagamorph » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:33 pm

Albear wrote:What did notch do that makes people hate him so much?


Starting around 2017, Persson began receiving criticism for political and social opinions he expressed on Twitter. In July 2017, he tweeted in support of a heterosexual pride day. After facing community backlash, he deleted the tweets and walked back his statements, writing in one tweet, "So yeah, it's about pride of daring to express, not about pride of being who you are. I get it now."[33] Critics said his follow-up tweets were "half-baked apologies."[34]

In August 2017, Persson received criticism for a series of tweets suggesting the possible truth of the Pizzagate conspiracy theory, which claims members of the Democratic Party, including Hillary Clinton and John Podesta, were involved in human trafficking and running a child sex ring from a pizzeria. When asked to clarify his position by a reporter, Persson indicated that he did not necessarily wholly support every component of the Pizzagate theory, but pointed out several components that he found plausible; he suggested that the illegal behavior might be "drugs and collusion" rather than a child sex ring.[35][36]

In November 2017, Persson was criticized for posting a tweet that read, "It's ok to be white." In follow-up tweets, he said he believed privilege is a "made up metric." Critics of Persson said his message was "tone-deaf" and "ignorant"; The Root called the tweets a "white-privilege meltdown


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Pe ... troversies

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Albear » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:35 pm

Ah ok. He sounds like a dick.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:28 pm

Albear wrote:Ah ok. He sounds like a dick.


During the whole Straight Pride thing, he tweeted this

http://www.mandatory.com/culture/128800 ... serve-shot

Tl;dr

If you're against the concept of a #heterosexualprideday you're a complete strawberry floating banana split and deserve to be shot


He called Zoe Quinn a banana split as well, apropos of nothing.

My proudest moment on Twitter was when Neil Druckmann, the director of TLoU and TLoU 2 posted a pic of himself at notch's Halloween party (held at the guy's ridiculous $80 million house). I replied, quoting the above tweet and some gumph about it not looking too hot to associate oneself with the twat. My reply got a load of likes, and Druckmann deleted the pic after a few hours.

strawberry float notch.

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PostRe: (PCGT V) PC gaming is dead, press F to pay respects
by Rightey » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:06 pm

Karl wrote:But no-one is censoring games. What they were saying, previously, was "we're a shop and we don't want to endorse certain kinds of content by having it appear in our shop".

The creators of Kill All Black People Simulator (name chosen to be deliberately ridiculous, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's out there somewhere...) could still make the game and upload it to the Internet and link it on The_Donald for a trillion upvotes. They can even sell it, privately, to those people. But Valve obviously shouldn't endorse it by putting it on Steam. And having it appear in your shop is an endorsement. They can say "It's not an endorsement, it's an open platform", but what they really mean is "From now on we'll endorse almost literally anything".

And yeah Rightey you're right, Kill All Black People Simulator isn't going to by itself convince someone to join the KKK. But maybe it makes someone falling into an alt-right way of thinking a bit more comfortable with their choices and feelings. Maybe it makes black people who see the store page and see Valve not doing anything about it feel a little worse that day. If we consistently accept things that make that incremental difference, all those little things add up and turn into social movements and oppression.


First let me just say, I do agree that given the state of the market, you're right it's not true censorship as Steam is a store, rather than the be all end all. However I do believe some stores can act as pretty effective gatekeepers to customers, being a sort of de facto censor. For example Wal-Mart refused to carry any game with an AO rating, and that essentially meant up until digital distribution no one ever put in a boob into a game produced by a major studio.

Secondly, I think we're really comparing apples and oranges here. People in here mentioned that it would be better for Steam to crack down on asset flipping, and other low quality games. I can agree with that, but I don't think it has anything to do with censorship. It's not some dial that goes from 0 everything is allowed (including all these crappy games), to a 10 where all of our games will be brilliant, and perfectly wholesome. Steam, like the app stores, doesn't crack down on these asset flipping games because:

1) They're lazy and it would cost them money to police it

2) I think like most online stores, they think people care about numbers, how much you have is massively important, rather than the quality. Personally I disagree with this, but I do think there is some deep instinctual bias we have as people to think that more is better.

So I really don't think the option for them to control the content on their store was really there to begin with. They were either going to maintain the status quo of not allowing sexual stuff, while still allowing all these low quality games, or just say strawberry float it you can have your tiddies.

Now onto the third point as I said, if they are saying we will allow anything as long as it's not illegal, this still means you can't publish a game that incites violence, as that is illegal in pretty much every jurisdiction.

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