PCGT III - QQ

Mafro wrote:
Mann vs. Machine is a new co-operative game for Team Fortress 2 that lets you and five friends wage a desperate battle to stop a lethal horde of robots from deploying a bomb in one of Mann Co.’s many strongholds. Take advantage of breaks between waves to upgrade your abilities and weapons. Survive all the waves in any of a variety of missions to earn incredible loot.

Looks and sounds great, can't wait to try it out.

I don't play TF2, but I like hoard modes. I'll give it a shot.

PostRe: PCGT III - MOBA talk taken over by **8raz** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:49 am

StayDead wrote:Well I'm going to get enjoyment out of the co-op style horde mode in TF2 and I can understand why you personally wouldn't. I think that's all that really needs to be said. Some people will like it, some won't.

some people like mutilating their sexual organs. but i, of course, respect all positions and views.

StayDead wrote:I think that's all that really needs to be said. Some people will like it, some won't.

Don't stifle discussion.

PostRe: PCGT III - MOBA talk taken over by **Qikz** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:01 am

Winckle wrote:
StayDead wrote:I think that's all that really needs to be said. Some people will like it, some won't.

Don't stifle discussion.

Winckle, you know as well as I do that discussions just do not happen in the PCS community. Infact, over GRCade as a whole. A few people will have a differing opinion to the vocal majority (and often times you) and then the ones who disagree with the "objective best" opinion on anything are then shouted down by the vocal majority for having bad opinions until they eventually give up, some never coming back to Mumble and some never speaking again or speaking very infrequently.

There's going to be quite a lot of people (probably the majority of TF2 players) who are going to love this update and then there's going to be the people like you and Raz who used to try and take the game semi-seriously who are going to hate it as it's not the TF2 you once loved. You'll just say that it's gimmicky and doesn't fit with Valve's original design and that's the end of it. Nobody will be able to tell you that TF2 is still an enjoyable game (despite us having really enjoyable games a month or two ago with everyone) and this mode will never be more than a pointless addon to you guys.

Why was everyone playing TF2 tonight if it's so bad?

StayDead wrote:
Winckle wrote:
StayDead wrote:I think that's all that really needs to be said. Some people will like it, some won't.

Don't stifle discussion.

Winckle, you know as well as I do that discussions just do not happen in the PCS community. Infact, over GRCade as a whole. A few people will have a differing opinion to the vocal majority (and often times you) and then the ones who disagree with the "objective best" opinion on anything are then shouted down by the vocal majority for having bad opinions until they eventually give up, some never coming back to Mumble and some never speaking again or speaking very infrequently.

There's going to be quite a lot of people (probably the majority of TF2 players) who are going to love this update and then there's going to be the people like you and Raz who used to try and take the game semi-seriously who are going to hate it as it's not the TF2 you once loved. You'll just say that it's gimmicky and doesn't fit with Valve's original design and that's the end of it. Nobody will be able to tell you that TF2 is still an enjoyable game (despite us having really enjoyable games a month or two ago with everyone) and this mode will never be more than a pointless addon to you guys.

If they have objectively wrong opinions then that is the end of discussion

PostRe: PCGT III - MOBA talk taken over by **8raz** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:35 am

StayDead wrote:
Winckle wrote:
StayDead wrote:I think that's all that really needs to be said. Some people will like it, some won't.

Don't stifle discussion.

Winckle, you know as well as I do that discussions just do not happen in the PCS community. Infact, over GRCade as a whole. A few people will have a differing opinion to the vocal majority (and often times you) and then the ones who disagree with the "objective best" opinion on anything are then shouted down by the vocal majority for having bad opinions until they eventually give up, some never coming back to Mumble and some never speaking again or speaking very infrequently.

yes they don't happen. that's because when somebody makes a completely reasonable point you handwave it away by saying "well i enjoy it" like that belongs anywhere near the sophisticated discussion you apparently crave. then you have the audacity to say stupid gooseberry fool like "i enjoy more things than you, it's a good thing!" which is so strawberry floating wrong and misguided that i'm not even sure what to say to someone who thinks that.

let me make things really clear. no-one gives a gooseberry fool if people enjoy tf2 or whatever game. there's plenty of things that i enjoy that aren't the "objective best" like modern warfare 2 which is a bad game. but y'know staydead, i can call it a bad game. i can't defend it. when people message me on steam and say "you sure play a lot of modern warfare 2, should i get it?" i tell them no. because to say it's a good game is simply incorrect.

it's time to accept that you're not being persecuted for "enjoying things" or for having an opinion that differs from others. it's that a lot of the time your logic is so bad that whenever i find out we agree on something i have to immediately reevaluate my position.

Surely if a game is fun it automatically ceases to be a bad game?

Harry Bizzle wrote:Surely if a game is fun it automatically ceases to be a bad game?

"fun" just means "I enjoy this" When discussing the qualities of games you have to go deeper and think "why do I enjoy this?".

In the case of Modern Warfare 2 I enjoyed it because the community was so awful that riling them up became a game in itself.

In the case of old TF2 it was a nearly perfectly balanced, very "pure" team based shooter I could return to for hundreds of hours of enjoyment.

My point was that a game which you enjoy has succeeded on some level at what it has tried to do, regardless of whether it is a cliched, scripted and uninspired piece of junk with matchmaking full of man-children or not.

PostRe: PCGT III - MOBA talk taken over by **8raz** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:37 am

Harry Bizzle wrote:My point was that a game which you enjoy has succeeded on some level at what it has tried to do, regardless of whether it is a cliched, scripted and uninspired piece of junk with matchmaking full of man-children or not.

it actually hasn't succeeded because the fun is derived from playing in a way which the developers did not intend. either way it doesn't matter because fun is subjective and by this line of reasoning nothing can ever be bad because someone on planet earth will be enjoying it. but that isn't really the point and is a shitty discussion.

the point is that tf2 is/was my favourite game of all time and it's been completely ruined because the majority of the playerbase are enabling and encouraging what valve are doing to the game. take a look at the steam forums some time and see what happens to anyone who dares suggest that they might be going too far or they should add a "vanilla" mode. the majority of the tf2 playerbase will get excited and support whatever is thrown into the game regardless of it's impact on the gameplay because it's shiny and new. not because it adds anything interesting to the game. people get excited over comics, strawberry floats sake. why?

this is what has ruined tf2. anyone with legitimate grievances with the game is shouted down as a hater of the fun. despite the game being less fun when it's an unbalanced mess.

PostRe: PCGT III - MOBA talk taken over by **aayl1** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:37 am

Damn, that TF2 mode sounds great. A shame they had to release it just as I changed timezones.

I too used to like said Team Fortress, however it seems the initial vision/style of the game is only preserved in these videos, and the meet the team stuff. I strawberry floating love the character design and the world that they have created around it, but the actual game is full of stupid weapons and gimmicky gooseberry fool. Oh well, goodnight sweet prince etc.

YouTube

The following is an extract from a 1970's BBC educational television series by Peter Poopfetish, titled "How Not to Argue".

TRIGGER WARNING: THE FOLLOWING SPOILER CONTAINS EFFORT POSTING. READER DISCRETION IS ADVISED.

YouTube

In truth, if I wanted to play a horde game, I'd play Killing Floor or L4D. I'm gonna try the new mode, give it a chance and see what it's like.

The way they show the horrible gimmick classes as robots for me just proves how little valve cares about competative play and merely acts as advertising for their terrible gimmick items in their little sidegrade store. This mode is not going to make standard TF2 modes any more enjoyable for me to play. In my opinion, its gonna do the opposite - by attempting to put Boxing Heavies and Demoknights into "acceptable" roles in the game. Its there for people who never played with these weapons when they first came out, and subsiquently got bored of them after about 10 minutes.

The rewards for the game will (if the past weapon "upgrades" and miscellaneous items are anything to go by) be the usual "Gamebreaking and obnoxious until Valve patches out the Gamebreaking aspect".

I don't see why they chose TF2 for this mode though. They could have quite easily put this in L4D as a free DLC.

PostRe: PCGT III - MOBA talk taken over by **False** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:07 am

Im not reading all these words rebutting a StayDead point.

Me, Karl and Silva actually played last night. It was bad. We stopped. We shant do it again.

PostRe: PCGT III - MOBA talk taken over by **8raz** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:13 am

Stugene wrote:I don't see why they chose TF2 for this mode though. They could have quite easily put this in L4D as a free DLC.

it's already in. it's called survival mode!

PostRe: PCGT III - MOBA talk taken over by **Donk** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:24 am

I'd be willing to give this a go, as at least the gimpedness of established players having ridiculously op stuff will only affect my score, not how often I die.

StayDead wrote:
Winckle wrote:
StayDead wrote:I think that's all that really needs to be said. Some people will like it, some won't.

Don't stifle discussion.

Winckle, you know as well as I do that discussions just do not happen in the PCS community. Infact, over GRCade as a whole. A few people will have a differing opinion to the vocal majority (and often times you) and then the ones who disagree with the "objective best" opinion on anything are then shouted down by the vocal majority for having bad opinions until they eventually give up, some never coming back to Mumble and some never speaking again or speaking very infrequently.

There's going to be quite a lot of people (probably the majority of TF2 players) who are going to love this update and then there's going to be the people like you and Raz who used to try and take the game semi-seriously who are going to hate it as it's not the TF2 you once loved. You'll just say that it's gimmicky and doesn't fit with Valve's original design and that's the end of it. Nobody will be able to tell you that TF2 is still an enjoyable game (despite us having really enjoyable games a month or two ago with everyone) and this mode will never be more than a pointless addon to you guys.

O shut the hell up. Stop justifying your nonsensical bullshit with absolute lies.

I strawberry floating hate the "o I had fun" argument. Purely subjective, no analysis, and a cheap cop-out when it comes to discussion. You're the cancer killing debate and discussion. You reject the notion of identifying on an objective level where the fun comes from, or even analysing where your fun is derived from. Unlike winkle who can easily admit he has fun pissing off the COD community, you don't have the balls to admit that you like pissing off the TF2 community with your terrible engineer class that grinds the game to a halt, you enjoy the automation of not having to play a class and just sit there hammering away at your sentry gun while your numbers go up. That is why the "well I had fun" argument is bullshit.

PCGT III - QQ

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