The Poker Thread

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Luwinski
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Luwinski » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:02 am

I'm never folding KK in a cash game AIPF at the stakes I play which is anywhere up to £100NL.

Maybe a different game up at the higher stakes. Still don't think they fold it.

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DML
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by DML » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:49 am

Luwinski wrote:I'm never folding KK in a cash game AIPF at the stakes I play which is anywhere up to £100NL.

Maybe a different game up at the higher stakes. Still don't think they fold it.



Ditto except I'd never ever fold it pre-flop unless I had the biggest tell of all time ever!

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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Clarkman » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:22 am

Playing the usual society stacks of 5/10p. I'm sitting on a monster-stack of £37. There's a straddle on for twenty, one caller, next guys raises to fifty and another calls. I'm in the BB with KK, I make it £2. The straddle raises to £10 and it's folded back to me.

The straddler is a hyper-aggro donkathon with an extreme case of run-good and an unlimited add-on bank roll. He's doubled me and numerous others up tonight. He's currently sitting on a stack of £28. I know if I ship, I am getting called 100% of the time. I have no fold equity whatsoever. Though AA is only like 20% of his range in this spot, maybe less, I didn't want to great a 500bb pot when I can outplay this guy post flop, so I tank fold the KK. He had AQ and would have made trip Queens.

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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by DML » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:26 am

Clarkman wrote:Playing the usual society stacks of 5/10p. I'm sitting on a monster-stack of £37. There's a straddle on for twenty, one caller, next guys raises to fifty and another calls. I'm in the BB with KK, I make it £2. The straddle raises to £10 and it's folded back to me.

The straddler is a hyper-aggro donkathon with an extreme case of run-good and an unlimited add-on bank roll. He's doubled me and numerous others up tonight. He's currently sitting on a stack of £28. I know if I ship, I am getting called 100% of the time. I have no fold equity whatsoever. Though AA is only like 20% of his range in this spot, maybe less, I didn't want to great a 500bb pot when I can outplay this guy post flop, so I tank fold the KK. He had AQ and would have made trip Queens.


Terrible poker.

Your reasoning makes no sense. Why are you so determined to 'out-play' him post-flop? You've already stated he's a hyper-aggressive donk - that is not the sort of player you want to be floating/bluffing against - you wanna be doing that against nits mainly! You've also said hes calling 100% of the time, why the HELL do you not WANT the call? So you can 'pull off some moves' later on? Get outta town - you must actually hate money!

The fact that he would of hit trips is irrelevant, you should of been getting your money in 100% of the time. Pokers a lot less stressful with less decisions, and one decision you can firmly take out of your arsenal is folding Kings pre-flop. If Ivey isn't doing it...why the hell are you? If you don't wanna lose the money, then you are playing too high.

EDIT - Sorry, I sound like I'm being really nasty - but this is a 'harsh but fair' routine to make sure you don't throw away money in the long run. If you aren't waiting for Kings - what ARE you waiting for? Royal Flushes?

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satriales
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by satriales » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:01 pm

The thought process of not wanting to play a big pot is very strange. You have the best hand and know that he will call 100% if you shove, so you should be shoving and happy that he calls. The only time you shouldn't be shoving is if you think you can get more value by flatting, but with KK i'd rather get it in pre than see an Ace on the flop. Folding pre isn't ever an option.

If you bet the £26 and get called the pot will be over £57. So you just need 45% equity to make that move. If AQ is the bottom of his range then you have 65% equity and so every time you shove you are making £11 profit on average. His range is probably much wider than that though and so your profit will be higher.

If it was a tournament then there are arguments for folding and finding better spots as you only have one life, but in a cash game you want to take every +EV spot you can.

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Drumstick
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Drumstick » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:07 pm

DML wrote:If you aren't waiting for Kings - what ARE you waiting for? Royal Flushes?

IRL lol :lol:

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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Clarkman » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:55 pm

I don't really know anything about cash. Am happy to keep turning small profits at this point in the term. He did stack off later in the night, but I left the table after folding that hand. I don't regret it, obviously because of the outcome. I am now aware that it is never a correct decision though.

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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Phatman » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:43 pm

Talk about missing the boat. Played in a cash game last night and made a standard fold under-the-gun with 9d-8d. It's a nice hand, but I don't have the position to play it really. The flop is 7d-6d-5d (exactly in that order). Wouldn't be so bad if the pot was small, but oh no. Salt. Wound. One player donks all-in with his trips over the top of a c-bet from the original raiser and gets called by an A-high flush. The pot was £100+. I know that 99/100 I'm not in that hand from that position, but still. FML.

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Rex McGee
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Rex McGee » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:19 pm

DML wrote: but this is a 'harsh but fair' routine to make sure you don't throw away money in the long run.


The same one that worked with you?

I think the key point here is (based on your reads) he calls 100% and 80% of the time with a significantly worse hand.

If you can make sure that you are ahead of 51% of his range then its fine to get it all in there and then. The only reason to flat is if you think you are really strong vs his range and he folds to enough of your shoves.

I don't think I could ever fold KK pre in a cash game. If I did it would be vs worlds biggest nit (aka you judging by this) who plays AA only.

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DML
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by DML » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:34 pm

Rex McGee wrote:
DML wrote: but this is a 'harsh but fair' routine to make sure you don't throw away money in the long run.


The same one that worked with you?

I think the key point here is (based on your reads) he calls 100% and 80% of the time with a significantly worse hand.

If you can make sure that you are ahead of 51% of his range then its fine to get it all in there and then. The only reason to flat is if you think you are really strong vs his range and he folds to enough of your shoves.

I don't think I could ever fold KK pre in a cash game. If I did it would be vs worlds biggest nit (aka you judging by this) who plays AA only.


I am a better player now then I was then. So maybe yes. However I realised my post came over as a touch 'Rex-esque' hence inserting an apology. ;) Its also fair to say I wasn't folding Kings pre-flop!

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Drumstick
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Drumstick » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:41 pm

Rex McGee wrote: If I did it would be vs worlds biggest nit (aka you judging by this) who plays AA only.

I don't think New York goes to uni.

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Rex McGee
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Rex McGee » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:02 pm

Drumstick wrote:
Rex McGee wrote: If I did it would be vs worlds biggest nit (aka you judging by this) who plays AA only.

I don't think New York goes to uni.


HUGE ROLF :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Luwinski » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:45 am

Promise us you'll never fold kings again clarkman ! :D

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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Luwinski » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:06 pm

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Here's this months 45 man $3.50 turbo SnG graph. I think it's pretty coherent with a 45 man turbo graph.

It is a sample of 1755 games over 1 month. My ROI is 11%, I would like it to be higher but haven't plugged my leaks yet. Maybe some coaching would help? Have you guys ever had any?

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satriales
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by satriales » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:12 pm

Very nice graph :D

I won't bother showing mine as I've played less than 200 games this month with a profit of -$70. I think I'm going to take it easy with poker until I get a job (been applying for a job every day, so shouldn't be long now until I get something) and then I'll move back up to the $8 180s and not worry about busting my bankroll.

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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Luwinski » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:52 pm

SnG servers down for anybody else?

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satriales
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by satriales » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:01 pm

Luwinski wrote:SnG servers down for anybody else?


Yeah had 7 tables open which have all been frozen for the last hour. Just before they completely froze the servers were lagging really bad and I slow-rolled someone with quads. They weren't happy. :lol:

If you're in any tournaments that are frozen then they will be cancelled once the servers are fixed, and refunds will be 50% based on chip count, the rest evenly divided amongst remaining players.

Luwinski
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Luwinski » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:07 pm

Ack ok thanks for letting me know. Got any big stacks? :lol: :lol:

Sucks when your trying to get a big sample in.

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satriales
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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by satriales » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:12 pm

No not really, a couple of 180s are down to 70 players, and one is at 38 but I have about average stack on all my tables.

A rep from Stars has been posting in this thread if you want updates: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/pokerstars-down-lagging-333648/index146.html

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PostRe: The Poker Thread - Run Good Inc.
by Luwinski » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:19 am

PokerStars Hand #74932193287: Tournament #510571338, $6.42+$0.58 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (600/1200) - 2012/02/02 22:15:59 ET
Table '510571338 5' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Luwinski (31587 in chips)
Seat 3: edwin272 (6082 in chips)
Seat 7: Pokerjoke909 (12269 in chips)
Seat 8: Riverdinho (5968 in chips)
Seat 9: fasr27 (11594 in chips)
Luwinski: posts the ante 75
edwin272: posts the ante 75
Pokerjoke909: posts the ante 75
Riverdinho: posts the ante 75
fasr27: posts the ante 75
fasr27: posts small blind 600
Luwinski: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Luwinski [Jc Jd]
edwin272: folds
Pokerjoke909: raises 10994 to 12194 and is all-in
Riverdinho: calls 5893 and is all-in
fasr27: folds
Luwinski: calls 10994
*** FLOP *** [7h Ah 8h]
*** TURN *** [7h Ah 8h] [2h]
*** RIVER *** [7h Ah 8h 2h] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Luwinski: shows [Jc Jd] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
Pokerjoke909: shows [Js Jh] (a flush, Ace high)
Pokerjoke909 collected 12602 from side pot
Riverdinho: shows [2s 2d] (a full house, Deuces full of Aces)
Riverdinho collected 18654 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 31256 Main pot 18654. Side pot 12602. | Rake 0
Board [7h Ah 8h 2h Ad]
Seat 1: Luwinski (big blind) showed [Jc Jd] and lost with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 3: edwin272 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Pokerjoke909 showed [Js Jh] and won (12602) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 8: Riverdinho (button) showed [2s 2d] and won (18654) with a full house, Deuces full of Aces
Seat 9: fasr27 (small blind) folded before Flop

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