Politics Thread 5

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Octoroc
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Octoroc » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:59 am

Preezy wrote:
Octoroc wrote:I realise the burka has become emblematic of something bigger, but it's just clothing and it's really not all that important. It really isn't.

I think were it just that very conservative Muslim woman wore an orange t-shirt, people wouldn't have an issue with it (although I don't like orange t-shirts). But the burqa is a literal barrier that stops you seeing the person's face. That makes it very difficult to view them as part of your community or society in general, as they're just these floating entities that you aren't "allowed" (or are very hesitant) to interact with. "Can I talk to someone in a burqa? Will they be offended if I look at them? Will the man they're with get aggressive if I try and talk to them?" That kind of thing probably goes through lots of peoples minds, so I get why it's a problem for lots of people. Plus as Drummy said, they could be hiding bombs in them.

Having lived in a very strict Islamic country during my childhood I'm not really fussed about people in burqas, they're not totally alien to me, but I can definitely see how people that aren't used to it would take issue.


Well, I'm from Preston (or 'Paki-Land' as people from the Ribble Valley like to call it) and when I see a woman in a burka I think 'there's a woman in a burka'.

Having said that, if I'm wearing sunglasses I will take them off in a shop because I think it's polite to do so. The same goes for headphones, but that's just me.

Think of the furore that can be caused when women breast feed in public or how women are judged if they wear 'provocative clothing' - this still happens in our so-called progressive societies. We've been covering women up for thousands of years.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Preezy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:03 am

Octoroc wrote:We've been covering women up for thousands of years.

Quite right too, I don't know where to look sometimes!

(protip: look at the breasts)

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by OrangeRakoon » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:04 am

When a lot of in person communication is non-verbal, people are going to be uncomfortable if someone's face is almost entirely obscured, especially if that isn't something they are used to. Anonymity is also suspicious in many contexts.

So essentially it is not surprising that people object to the burka. I wouldn't support a ban but I'm not judging people for not liking the concept, it seems quite natural.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:09 am

When a lot of in person communication is non-verbal, people are going to be uncomfortable if someone's Iron Maiden t-shirt has imagery like skeletons or demons shown, especially if that isn't something they are used to. Occult/devil worshipping symbolism is also suspicious in many contexts.

So essentially it is not surprising that people object to Iron Maiden t-shirts. I wouldn't support a ban but I'm not judging people for not liking the concept, it seems quite natural.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:12 am

I'd prefer a ban on Iron Maiden t-shirts to a ban on Burkas.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Tafdolphin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:14 am

I feel like the fact that, to some, the burka is a centuries old symbol of oppression is being slightly overlooked here.

Not that Iron Maiden t-shirts aren't decades old symbols of an oppressed taste in music.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:16 am

Tafdolphin wrote:I feel like the fact that, to some, the burka is a centuries old symbol of oppression is being slightly overlooked here.

Not that Iron Maiden t-shirts aren't decades old symbols of an oppressed taste in music.


I have not overlooked that the origins of the burka lie in female oppression. I still don't think a group of white men have the right to ban an article of female clothing.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by OrangeRakoon » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:21 am

Moggy wrote:When a lot of in person communication is non-verbal, people are going to be uncomfortable if someone's Iron Maiden t-shirt has imagery like skeletons or demons shown, especially if that isn't something they are used to. Occult/devil worshipping symbolism is also suspicious in many contexts.

So essentially it is not surprising that people object to Iron Maiden t-shirts. I wouldn't support a ban but I'm not judging people for not liking the concept, it seems quite natural.


While you're suggesting a false equivalency, as facial expressions are much more involved in communication than the chest and t-shirts do not provided anonymity, I don't disagree with the comparison outright. Wearing clothing with violent or dark imagery will make some people uncomfortable and that doesn't surprise me at all.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:26 am

OrangeRakoon wrote:
Moggy wrote:When a lot of in person communication is non-verbal, people are going to be uncomfortable if someone's Iron Maiden t-shirt has imagery like skeletons or demons shown, especially if that isn't something they are used to. Occult/devil worshipping symbolism is also suspicious in many contexts.

So essentially it is not surprising that people object to Iron Maiden t-shirts. I wouldn't support a ban but I'm not judging people for not liking the concept, it seems quite natural.


While you're suggesting a false equivalency, as facial expressions are much more involved in communication than the chest and t-shirts do not provided anonymity, I don't disagree with the comparison outright. Wearing clothing with violent or dark imagery will make some people uncomfortable and that doesn't surprise me at all.


It wasn’t a false equivalency as I wasn’t equating them.

My (light hearted) point was that there are many forms of clothing that people object to but that others choose to wear. And it’s nobody else’s business what somebody chooses to wear.

There are exceptions to that of course. Banks, airport security etc. But an outright ban on an item of clothing in public is ridiculous whether it’s a burka or an Iron Maiden t-shirt.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by <]:^D » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:27 am

OrangeRakoon wrote:
Moggy wrote:When a lot of in person communication is non-verbal, people are going to be uncomfortable if someone's Iron Maiden t-shirt has imagery like skeletons or demons shown, especially if that isn't something they are used to. Occult/devil worshipping symbolism is also suspicious in many contexts.

So essentially it is not surprising that people object to Iron Maiden t-shirts. I wouldn't support a ban but I'm not judging people for not liking the concept, it seems quite natural.


While you're suggesting a false equivalency, as facial expressions are much more involved in communication than the chest and t-shirts do not provided anonymity, I don't disagree with the comparison outright. Wearing clothing with violent or dark imagery will make some people uncomfortable and that doesn't surprise me at all.

someone tell that to Preezy!

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by OrangeRakoon » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:30 am

Well I don't disagree!

I just always assume you are arguing against me :P

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Preezy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:31 am

<]:^D wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Moggy wrote:When a lot of in person communication is non-verbal, people are going to be uncomfortable if someone's Iron Maiden t-shirt has imagery like skeletons or demons shown, especially if that isn't something they are used to. Occult/devil worshipping symbolism is also suspicious in many contexts.

So essentially it is not surprising that people object to Iron Maiden t-shirts. I wouldn't support a ban but I'm not judging people for not liking the concept, it seems quite natural.


While you're suggesting a false equivalency, as facial expressions are much more involved in communication than the chest and t-shirts do not provided anonymity, I don't disagree with the comparison outright. Wearing clothing with violent or dark imagery will make some people uncomfortable and that doesn't surprise me at all.

someone tell that to Preezy!

:slol:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Hexx » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:32 am

Eye context and expression is potentially even more important but why don't ban big sunglasses

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:35 am

OrangeRakoon wrote:Well I don't disagree!

I just always assume you are arguing against me :P


I am always arguing but I am not always completely serious about it. ;)

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Octoroc
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Octoroc » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:38 am

We always knew what Darth Vader was thinking.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Squinty » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:09 pm

Lagamorph wrote:I'd prefer a ban on Iron Maiden t-shirts to a ban on Burkas.


Get tae fook.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Tafdolphin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:09 pm

Moggy wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:I feel like the fact that, to some, the burka is a centuries old symbol of oppression is being slightly overlooked here.

Not that Iron Maiden t-shirts aren't decades old symbols of an oppressed taste in music.


I have not overlooked that the origins of the burka lie in female oppression. I still don't think a group of white men have the right to ban an article of female clothing.


100% my thoughts. My comment wasn't really addressed at you, although I didn't make that clear.

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Octoroc
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Octoroc » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:13 pm

Hexx wrote:Eye context and expression is potentially even more important but why don't ban big sunglasses


...or blind people.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Remi Dong » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:30 pm

I wonder how GRcade are reacting to the news about the bur-

Hexx wrote:why don't ban big sunglasses


-never mind.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Vermilion » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:23 pm

Moggy wrote:I also don’t think it is the massive issue that anti-Muslim voices make it out to be. I live near a very Muslim area and you very rarely (if ever) see anybody in a full burqa. As time goes on it will end up being seen less and less as Western attitudes filter into the more conservative Muslim communities.


See quite a few in London, though there's no way of knowing whether they're actually from the local community or just middle eastern tourists.

Octoroc wrote:We always knew what Darth Vader was thinking.


...or did we?


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