Politics Thread 5

[Jenuall]

Hey Moggy's back

I agree that privatisation in general has broadly been a failure in this country, as you say the services have not improved and yet costs have increased considerably. Running a commercial service because to make a profit is also going to involve compromises that a government run department would not need to make, the needs of the user have to play second fiddle to the need to make money.

Also as has already been pointed out in this thread you can't use the "competition drives up quality!" argument in many of the cases in question here as there is no real competition in these markets. Someone wins the contract, runs the service for as low a cost as possible and tries to make as much money before they get booted out in favour of another provider, doesn't sound like a great system to me.

[Moggy]

Hey Moggy's back

I agree that privatisation in general has broadly been a failure in this country, as you say the services have not improved and yet costs have increased considerably. Running a commercial service because to make a profit is also going to involve compromises that a government run department would not need to make, the needs of the user have to play second fiddle to the need to make money.

Also as has already been pointed out in this thread you can't use the "competition drives up quality!" argument in many of the cases in question here as there is no real competition in these markets. Someone wins the contract, runs the service for as low a cost as possible and tries to make as much money before they get booted out in favour of another provider, doesn't sound like a great system to me.

In theory the competition is there, you can change electricity provider or a different bus company could operate in the city.

In reality there isn’t much choice though. In Bristol for instance First Group basically have a complete monopoly on the buses. Switching electricity providers is doable, but people are only switching based on prices, there isn’t really any different service/options available (as there would be in the smartphone market).

Some things should absolutely be privately owned. Smartphones and junk food are much better handled by corporations. But some things are better publically owned, especially when they are essential for people to be able to live.

[Jenuall]

Hey Moggy's back

I agree that privatisation in general has broadly been a failure in this country, as you say the services have not improved and yet costs have increased considerably. Running a commercial service because to make a profit is also going to involve compromises that a government run department would not need to make, the needs of the user have to play second fiddle to the need to make money.

Also as has already been pointed out in this thread you can't use the "competition drives up quality!" argument in many of the cases in question here as there is no real competition in these markets. Someone wins the contract, runs the service for as low a cost as possible and tries to make as much money before they get booted out in favour of another provider, doesn't sound like a great system to me.

In theory the competition is there, you can change electricity provider or a different bus company could operate in the city.

In reality there isn’t much choice though. In Bristol for instance First Group basically have a complete monopoly on the buses. Switching electricity providers is doable, but people are only switching based on prices, there isn’t really any different service/options available (as there would be in the smartphone market).

Some things should absolutely be privately owned. Smartphones and junk food are much better handled by corporations. But some things are better publically owned, especially when they are essential for people to be able to live.

Absolutely, services that provide the essential requirements for day to day operation of the country should be publically owned, going beyond that you start to get into muddy waters. Although obviously it is right that the government is able to regulate the private sector, who knows how low the quality of McDonald's food might drop if there were no standards that Ronald was being held to!

[Preezy]

Hi Moggy, welcome to the forum. I think you'll fit in well round here

[Moggy]

Hi Moggy, welcome to the forum. I think you'll fit in well round here

From reading your posts I am assuming this is a forum made up of American libertarians?

[Preezy]

Hi Moggy, welcome to the forum. I think you'll fit in well round here

From reading your posts I am assuming this is a forum made up of American libertarians?

Don't get fresh with me boy

[OrangeRKN]

In theory the competition is there, you can change electricity provider or a different bus company could operate in the city.

Is there actually anywhere in the country where people have a choice of local bus by different companies to get to the same place? I guess there is competition at the national bus/coach level with megabus and nationalexpress, but they are obviously quite different to local services.

Electricity competition is weird and abstract because you're obviously still connected to the same grid and getting power from the same source regardless of what provider you go with.

[Hexx]

Is there actually anywhere in the country where people have a choice of local bus by different companies to get to the same place?

Oxford has OBC and Stagecoach

[Moggy]

In theory the competition is there, you can change electricity provider or a different bus company could operate in the city.

Is there actually anywhere in the country where people have a choice of local bus by different companies to get to the same place? I guess there is competition at the national bus/coach level with megabus and nationalexpress, but they are obviously quite different to local services.

We do have a different bus company to First Group, they are called something like Wessex Red. But they are the exact same price and use the exact same routes as First Group (although they don’t have anywhere near as many). Completely pointless.

[Tafdolphin]

In theory the competition is there, you can change electricity provider or a different bus company could operate in the city.

Is there actually anywhere in the country where people have a choice of local bus by different companies to get to the same place?

If you're talking local buses, Manchester has the 'normal' buses and Magic Bus. The latter runs the exact same routes at a third of the price (£3.50 vs £1.50) by using older, reconditioned double-deckers (although it is owned by Stagecoach)

[Preezy]

Wessex Red.

Making Mercia great again!

[Moggy]

Wessex Red.

Making Mercia great again!

The logical step after Brexit is to stop Westminster interfering in our lives, we never voted to be ruled by London! Bring back Mercia and Wessex and let us get back to kicking Mercian arse!

[Outrunner]

In theory the competition is there, you can change electricity provider or a different bus company could operate in the city.

Is there actually anywhere in the country where people have a choice of local bus by different companies to get to the same place? I guess there is competition at the national bus/coach level with megabus and nationalexpress, but they are obviously quite different to local services.

We kind of do. Stagecoach is the main one, TM travel did similar routes years ago and was actually more convenient when I worked at the hospital. Their service seems to run much less routes than when I used it. Hulleys run buses on routes used by Stagecoach but again it runs fewer of them.

[Jenuall]

We have multiple bus companies that same to offer services here in Cheltenham. Marchants, Pulhams and Stagecoach all run local services, but they don't do the same routes so it's more complimentary than competitive.

[Tsunade]

We have National West Midlands and Diamond running most routes (and Igo doing more of the stranger ones at times). NWM and Diamond run the 50 route (apparently one of the busiest in the UK), which is a bit daft at the same price, but the diamond ones tend to be emptier. (The igo buses are nearly always empty, i dont know how they're staying afloat in the west midlands) If you pay £4.30 you can use any of the bus companies to get around for the day, which is convenient.

[OrangeRKN]

Fair play! I didn't realise that actually happened, I've only ever lived in places with a single bus service and never seen otherwise

[Lex-Man]

In Southend we have two train routes that you can get into London. But I don't think the buses go anywhere different.

[Garth]

twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1044924271854858240

[Vermilion]

Hey Moggy's back

...sorry.

[KK]

Everyone should be forced to watch Paddington 24/7 on Channel 5, I think it would give more people an appreciation of the rail service, especially when things go awry.