Politics Thread 5

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KK
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:42 pm

Blame the Somali’s for crime?

Well...yes. If they're the ones sitting at the top of the food chain, which they are, then absolutely. I mean they are literally called the Mali Boys.

This is like your typical liberal jaunt around the houses.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:12 pm

KK wrote:
Blame the Somali’s for crime?

Well...yes. If they're the ones sitting at the top of the food chain, which they are, then absolutely. I mean they are literally called the Mali Boys.

This is like your typical liberal jaunt around the houses.


Are they at the top of the food chain? The study you are referring to (but never linked to) only studied one gang. It’s hardly surprising that following one Somali gang results in a report about Somali gangs.

Do you have anything to suggest one ethnic gang group is worse than the others?

This is like your typical gammon joint (pun intended) around the houses. No evidence presented, plenty of “common sense” required and no real answers or solutions.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:19 pm

You can read the whole report right here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AvLO4A ... kCHi-/view

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:33 pm

KK wrote:You can read the whole report right here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AvLO4A ... kCHi-/view


I’m not making the claims, the onus is not on me to dissect an entire report.

However, the report focuses on one gang. It’s therefore only relevant to one gang and not to the ethnic composition of ALL gangs.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Vermilion » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:55 pm

Garth wrote:How are crime rates looking in other parts of England?


All the policing money in Wiltshire went to Salisbury, and that was even before the novichok as Wilts Police blew their budget on investigating Ted Heath.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:59 pm

Moggy wrote:I’m not making the claims, the onus is not on me to dissect an entire report.

However, the report focuses on one gang. It’s therefore only relevant to one gang and not to the ethnic composition of ALL gangs.

The report goes on to focus on that one gang, but looks at a myriad of gangs, because they are the most influential & dangerous, subsuming many other gangs in the process.

One gang, the Mali boys, featured strongly in the data obtained by young people and professionals...the Mali Boys were discussed more than all of the remaining gangs combined. Consequently, they will be discussed in a separate section at the end of the chapter.

"The Malis are a whole new entity. Those people come from these countries where they're pirates, and people are gang raped and beat up and it's all in front of them, they're ex soldiers, they're seeing people's heads get blown off...Even if they're not born there, their mums and dads have been raised by people who this has happened to and they're just products of these things, and so they feel they can come to here and do it here, this pirate thing, this whole 'we're taking over the ship'" (Participant, 21, young person)

This particularly rich quote from a young person captures a key idea expressed by other participants...

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:03 pm

KK wrote:
Moggy wrote:I’m not making the claims, the onus is not on me to dissect an entire report.

However, the report focuses on one gang. It’s therefore only relevant to one gang and not to the ethnic composition of ALL gangs.

The report goes on to focus on that one gang, but looks at a myriad of gangs, because they are the most influential & dangerous, subsuming many other gangs in the process.

One gang, the Mali boys, featured strongly in the data obtained by young people and professionals...the Mali Boys were discussed more than all of the remaining gangs combined. Consequently, they will be discussed in a separate section at the end of the chapter.

"The Malis are a whole new entity. Those people come from these countries where they're pirates, and people are gang raped and beat up and it's all in front of them, they're ex soldiers, they're seeing people's heads get blown off...Even if they're not born there, their mums and dads have been raised by people who this has happened to and they're just products of these things, and so they feel they can come to here and do it here, this pirate thing, this whole 'we're taking over the ship'" (Participant, 21, young person)

This particularly rich quote from a young person captures a key idea expressed by other participants...


It’s a 40 strong gang. 40 people, a lot of them aged 10-14 years old, are not an accurate picture of gangs and the ethnic makeup of gangs in London. Even that gang is not exclusively Somali.

I’m sure the report is a good look at how gangs operate, work and increase their numbers. But it’s useless as evidence of Somali’s being the driving force behind London’s crimewave.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:13 pm

The leadership size of the Mali Boys is 40, male, and all from Somalia. They sit at the top. None of them are between 10-14 years old. They're all elders, hiring young people aged between 12-17 of non Somali origin to do the low street level crime. If these low level criminals are arrested, they will be replaced. They are disposable.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:21 pm

KK wrote:The leadership size of the Mali Boys is 40, male, and all from Somalia. They sit at the top. None of them are between 10-14 years old. They're all elders, hiring young people aged between 12-17 of non Somali origin to do the low street level crime. If these low level criminals are arrested, they will be replaced. They are disposable.


That’s not what it said.

The year-long study focused on a Waltham Forest gang that calls itself the Mali Boys. A 40-strong grouping, its older members are drawn from the Somali community, while younger members include boys and girls from other backgrounds.


That’s 40 total.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:27 pm

Apparently Dacre is resigning as Editor of the Daily Mail. :toot:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:32 pm

Yet another Guardian strawberry float up of the facts...

Postcodes to Profit wrote:The Mali boys grew from a split with the Beaumont Boys in 2015. Gang size of the leadership group is estimated to be about 40. The Mali boys are elders from the Somali community of Waltham Forest, but we have recently seen that at a street level youngers are boys and girls from non Somali backgrounds...they appear well organised and their power and influence has grown since the split and are heavily involved in drug supply...young people have been recruited and used as drug runners, sometimes leaving the London area for cross country lines drug dealing organised by the Mali Boys elders. The younger gang members between the ages of 12 and 17 are increasingly becoming active in street level crime both as victims and perpetrators including serious violence, weapons carrying, CSE and drug carrying.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Hyperion » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:33 pm

Saw it flash up and I thought he'd died

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Ad7 wrote:stop moaning about it
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:36 pm

What a strange time to resign.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:44 pm

KK wrote:Yet another Guardian strawberry float up of the facts...

Postcodes to Profit wrote:The Mali boys grew from a split with the Beaumont Boys in 2015. Gang size of the leadership group is estimated to be about 40. The Mali boys are elders from the Somali community of Waltham Forest, but we have recently seen that at a street level youngers are boys and girls from non Somali backgrounds...they appear well organised and their power and influence has grown since the split and are heavily involved in drug supply...young people have been recruited and used as drug runners, sometimes leaving the London area for cross country lines drug dealing organised by the Mali Boys elders. The younger gang members between the ages of 12 and 17 are increasingly becoming active in street level crime both as victims and perpetrators including serious violence, weapons carrying, CSE and drug carrying.


Fair enough, I don’t usually use the Guardian but it was the first link I found when I searched to try and find out what you were talking about. I guess that does show why it’s important to post links to your sources. ;)

Still, that report is only about one London gang. There are estimated to be 250 gangs in London ( https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/l ... 56186.html ), is it fair to single out an ethnic group just because of one detailed report on one gang?

Plus this is ignoring that the government cuts have caused this rise in gangs.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:47 pm



:lol:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Hyperion » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:12 am


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Ad7 wrote:stop moaning about it
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:01 pm

Geordie Greig (sounds more like a nickname) is set to be appointed Daily Mail editor.

Interesting choice, he was Mail on Sunday editor which supported remain....

http://www.cityam.com/287181/mail-sunda ... itor-daily

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Winckle » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:13 pm

Dacre hated him didn't he?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:20 pm

Yeah, they didn’t get on.

He’s good friends with Lord Rothemere apparently.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:13 pm

To his credit because he’s hasn’t interefered editorially with the Mail (unlike Murdoch likes to do on The Sun and to a lesser extent Times) I think the Daily Mail is going to subtly and gradually shift its tone with both a Remain owning family and now editor as well.

You’ve seen it already with the Daily Express, which has gone really hard on crime stories since the Mirror bought it (dumping the weather, statins, royals routine of old).

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