Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors

[Tomous]

I don't think it was Corbyn's policies that were the issue, it was Corbyn himself. And while he didn't always help himself, alot of that was because of the smear job the mainstream media did

[Qikz]

I don't think it was Corbyn's policies that were the issue, it was Corbyn himself. And while he didn't always help himself, alot of that was because of the smear job the mainstream media did

They did that because of his policies though. The people in charge of the media didn't like his policies because it would hurt them or their friends as they'd have to contribute something to society other than vitriol though.

[Cuttooth]

I always find the accusation that people with more left wing beliefs are striving for "ideological purity" an odd crutch in these discussions because it is simply never an accusation that is thrown at anyone else across the political spectrum. Not Change UK supporters in 2019, not UKIP voters in 2010-2015, not Reform or anyone else who want the government to inflict misery onto certain groups of people in 2024. Those people's concerns are always considered perfectly legitimate and non-ideological, even though they end up with batshit things like leaving the European Union rather than public ownership of essential utilities. There was no way those parties would be sending any MP into the Commons, let alone form a government.

Choosing a political party to support or vote for is always a series of compromises. When I choose to support a candidate based on their policies and principals and they subsequently ditch them all, moving to a platform of near enough identical, similarly destructive policies as the government has but without the corruption element to them, it's no longer a compromise to continue supporting them, it's just a straightforward and pointless capitulation. There isn't really anything wrong with deciding to not be a part of that. At the moment Labour don't require or desire my vote so I don't want or need to give it to them.

I've also said it many times in the past but the idea that Labour will shift leftwards while in office is pretty absurd, and again a bit of a crutch for those who are still at that "hold your nose" stage. Whatever Labour's manifesto looks like at the election will be what their term in office looks like because that's really just how Westminster works.

Whatever movement Labour might make towards more traditionally left wing policies between now and the election, and between their time in office and the election in ~2029 will be solely down to the level of political pressure a party faces from potential lost votes. That's surely all part of the compromise? That's certainly how it works towards the other points of the spectrum!

[Cuttooth]

Angela Rayner says she will resign if she is found to have committed a crime over the sale of her house.

I've not really followed this because it's obviously a bit of a right-wing tabloid stitch up but this is all over the sale of a house she made before she was an MP? How big a deal is this actually? Better yet, how big a deal is it compared to a tenth of what various Tory MPs have done recently?

[Moggy]

Angela Rayner says she will resign if she is found to have committed a crime over the sale of her house.

I've not really followed this because it's obviously a bit of a right-wing tabloid stitch up but this is all over the sale of a house she made before she was an MP? How big a deal is this actually? Better yet, how big a deal is it compared to a tenth of what various Tory MPs have done recently?

I don't know the ins and outs of the law, but at the worst it seems to be an accusation that tax of £1500-£3000 was not paid when she sold her home about 10 years ago. I think it comes down to whether it was her main home, the accusation is she was actually living at her boyfriend/husbands house and so it shouldn't have counted as her main house and so capital gains tax was due.

It's almost certainly nothing. And is laughable when compared to the tax dodging and law breaking from the Tories.

[Godzilla]

It's a non story,.right wing press puahing it for clicks.

Starmer's team are now doing what they did during lockdown, very wise tactic of saying if guilty they'll go. He is a lawyer, knows the law, will have checked this and knows she is in the clear. It's a perfect way to draw a line under it. And proves they are above Tory corruption.

[Tomous]

It's a non story,.right wing press puahing it for clicks.

Starmer's team are now doing what they did during lockdown, very wise tactic of saying if guilty they'll go. He is a lawyer, knows the law, will have checked this and knows she is in the clear. It's a perfect way to draw a line under it. And proves they are above Tory corruption.

Yep. The same tactic and like beer gate, I expect they're happy no crime has been committed.

[satriales]

Considering the millions that Rishi Sunak and his wife have dodged, and the billions of covid fraud that he wrote off the minute he became PM, it really is a non-story.

When Sunak bought it up at PMQs a few weeks back, Starmer's response was "are we going to start examining the tax paid by every Tory MP before they became minister?". Pretty sure there'd be much more to find if we did.

[Moggy]

I think a lot of the Tory fanboys sense it's a nothing story as they seem to be running on an old Rayner tweet where she said something like "Boris Johnson is now under a police investigation, how can he stay as Prime Minister?". They are trying to push that she's a hypocrite as she's not resigned just for being investigated.

Which might be an ok tactic. Except, she's not Prime Minister, Johnson didn't resign, Labour didn't call the police on Johnson and we all saw the strawberry floating photos of Johnson breaking the law.

[Oblomov Boblomov]

It's a non story,.right wing press puahing it for clicks.

Starmer's team are now doing what they did during lockdown, very wise tactic of saying if guilty they'll go. He is a lawyer, knows the law, will have checked this and knows she is in the clear. It's a perfect way to draw a line under it. And proves they are above Tory corruption.

Yep. The same tactic and like beer gate, I expect they're happy no crime has been committed.

I expect they have no choice either way. If she hasn't done anything wrong then great. If she does get fined by the police for tax dodging then she has to go, whether they come out with this "will resign if guilty" line or not. They probably feel they earn a bit of credit by making the position clear in advance of the outcome.

[Tomous]

It's a non story,.right wing press puahing it for clicks.

Starmer's team are now doing what they did during lockdown, very wise tactic of saying if guilty they'll go. He is a lawyer, knows the law, will have checked this and knows she is in the clear. It's a perfect way to draw a line under it. And proves they are above Tory corruption.

Yep. The same tactic and like beer gate, I expect they're happy no crime has been committed.

I expect they have no choice either way. If she hasn't done anything wrong then great. If she does get fined by the police for tax dodging then she has to go, whether they come out with this "will resign if guilty" line or not. They probably feel they earn a bit of credit by making the position clear in advance of the outcome.

That isn't what the police investigation is for-they can't fine her for dodging tax, that isn't in their remit. HMRC could, if she has made a mistake she could pay the amount owed with interest and maybe a fine on top.

What the police are investigating her for is registering the wrong address as her main residence on the electoral register. I don't really know the implications of breaking electoral law like this but I suspect Labour are confident she hasnt and will be cleared.

[Oblomov Boblomov]

It's a non story,.right wing press puahing it for clicks.

Starmer's team are now doing what they did during lockdown, very wise tactic of saying if guilty they'll go. He is a lawyer, knows the law, will have checked this and knows she is in the clear. It's a perfect way to draw a line under it. And proves they are above Tory corruption.

Yep. The same tactic and like beer gate, I expect they're happy no crime has been committed.

I expect they have no choice either way. If she hasn't done anything wrong then great. If she does get fined by the police for tax dodging then she has to go, whether they come out with this "will resign if guilty" line or not. They probably feel they earn a bit of credit by making the position clear in advance of the outcome.

That isn't what the police investigation is for-they can't fine her for dodging tax, that isn't in their remit. HMRC could, if she has made a mistake she could pay the amount owed with interest and maybe a fine on top.

What the police are investigating her for is registering the wrong address as her main residence on the electoral register. I don't really know the implications of breaking electoral law like this but I suspect Labour are confident she hasnt and will be cleared.

I thought it was a conflated issue — the claim being that she had registered the wrong address intentionally to avoid tax?

[Tomous]

It's a non story,.right wing press puahing it for clicks.

Starmer's team are now doing what they did during lockdown, very wise tactic of saying if guilty they'll go. He is a lawyer, knows the law, will have checked this and knows she is in the clear. It's a perfect way to draw a line under it. And proves they are above Tory corruption.

Yep. The same tactic and like beer gate, I expect they're happy no crime has been committed.

I expect they have no choice either way. If she hasn't done anything wrong then great. If she does get fined by the police for tax dodging then she has to go, whether they come out with this "will resign if guilty" line or not. They probably feel they earn a bit of credit by making the position clear in advance of the outcome.

That isn't what the police investigation is for-they can't fine her for dodging tax, that isn't in their remit. HMRC could, if she has made a mistake she could pay the amount owed with interest and maybe a fine on top.

What the police are investigating her for is registering the wrong address as her main residence on the electoral register. I don't really know the implications of breaking electoral law like this but I suspect Labour are confident she hasnt and will be cleared.

I thought it was a conflated issue — the claim being that she had registered the wrong address intentionally to avoid tax?

It is a related in the sense that it involves her main residence address but the police investigation is to do with the electoral register and with her tax bill.

The definition of her main residence for the purposes of her tax bill has a set criteria and it seems to me like she made a genuine mistake there. She should have sought tax advice but didn't and possible owes up to £3.5k. This wouldn't be a crime though and something she can easily sort out with HMRC if they believe she has underpaid.

I also note she has said if she has committed a crime she will resign. Entirely possible she has committed no crime but owes HMRC some money

[Oblomov Boblomov]

It's a non story,.right wing press puahing it for clicks.

Starmer's team are now doing what they did during lockdown, very wise tactic of saying if guilty they'll go. He is a lawyer, knows the law, will have checked this and knows she is in the clear. It's a perfect way to draw a line under it. And proves they are above Tory corruption.

Yep. The same tactic and like beer gate, I expect they're happy no crime has been committed.

I expect they have no choice either way. If she hasn't done anything wrong then great. If she does get fined by the police for tax dodging then she has to go, whether they come out with this "will resign if guilty" line or not. They probably feel they earn a bit of credit by making the position clear in advance of the outcome.

That isn't what the police investigation is for-they can't fine her for dodging tax, that isn't in their remit. HMRC could, if she has made a mistake she could pay the amount owed with interest and maybe a fine on top.

What the police are investigating her for is registering the wrong address as her main residence on the electoral register. I don't really know the implications of breaking electoral law like this but I suspect Labour are confident she hasnt and will be cleared.

I thought it was a conflated issue — the claim being that she had registered the wrong address intentionally to avoid tax?

It is a related in the sense that it involves her main residence address but the police investigation is to do with the electoral register and with her tax bill.

The definition of her main residence for the purposes of her tax bill has a set criteria and it seems to me like she made a genuine mistake there. She should have sought tax advice but didn't and possible owes up to £3.5k. This wouldn't be a crime though and something she can easily sort out with HMRC if they believe she has underpaid.

I also note she has said if she has committed a crime she will resign. Entirely possible she has committed no crime but owes HMRC some money

Feel like this would be the worst outcome . It'd easily be framed as her having been found 'guilty' only to renege on her promise by relying on a technicality, no matter the actual details.

Hopefully it is actually a total bullshit smear.

[Moggy]

The definition of her main residence for the purposes of her tax bill has a set criteria and it seems to me like she made a genuine mistake there. She should have sought tax advice but didn't and possible owes up to £3.5k. This wouldn't be a crime though and something she can easily sort out with HMRC if they believe she has underpaid.

I also note she has said if she has committed a crime she will resign. Entirely possible she has committed no crime but owes HMRC some money

I might have this wrong, but I think HMRC have a 6 year time limit on tax that is owed, unless there has been a deliberate fraud? Which (unless she's committed fraud) means she won't owe them anything.

[Tomous]

The definition of her main residence for the purposes of her tax bill has a set criteria and it seems to me like she made a genuine mistake there. She should have sought tax advice but didn't and possible owes up to £3.5k. This wouldn't be a crime though and something she can easily sort out with HMRC if they believe she has underpaid.

I also note she has said if she has committed a crime she will resign. Entirely possible she has committed no crime but owes HMRC some money

I might have this wrong, but I think HMRC have a 6 year time limit on tax that is owed, unless there has been a deliberate fraud? Which (unless she's committed fraud) means she won't owe them anything.

Which is probably why HMRC don't seem to care but also it wouldn't be a great look for her to get off on this technicality so I suspect she would still pay it if she owed them money.

[Sprouty]

It's a non story,.right wing press puahing it for clicks.

Starmer's team are now doing what they did during lockdown, very wise tactic of saying if guilty they'll go. He is a lawyer, knows the law, will have checked this and knows she is in the clear. It's a perfect way to draw a line under it. And proves they are above Tory corruption.

Didn't Starmer previously try to purge Rayner, only to discover that he couldn't get rid of his elected Deputy? Perhaps he knows that she has broken the law...

[Knoyleo]

So the honey trapper that managed to get those phone numbers out of William Wragg seems to have been operating with the same MO since at least the Lib Dem conference last year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68796369

...

Falling into conversation with one of those he messaged, M-xl said he had heard about "orgy stories" from the conference.

The conference attendee responded with what he said was a made up story. "Hot," M-xl replied.

By this point, he was in a bar with friends. "I said to the people I was with: 'Hang on, have you had a message from this person?' And we'd all had similar messages," he said.

"They were kind of hinting they wanted to sleep with MPs," the second attendee told us. "They were asking for gossip, if I knew of anyone that would be interested in sleeping with them."

His name was Charlie
Months later, people would suspect what became known as the Westminster honeytrap of being the act of anyone ranging from a lone individual seeking sexual gratification to being the actions of a hostile state.

But those messaged in Bournemouth reached a different conclusion: they thought they were being targeted by a journalist seeking information.

"Just as a heads up to gays," another man wrote on a group chat for some male friends at the conference, "pretty sure there's a Journo honeytrap on Grindr".

...

[Lex-Man]

I've heard the were targeting people who were part of a Labour election campaign and the people involved reckon that Wragg wouldn't have their number. So they've probably being targeting all the parties.

[Moggy]