Racist women on London public transport - official thread part XIV

Jenuall wrote:

LewisD wrote:strawberry float that went from 0-100 real fast.

Fair play to the hard bastard on the bus who said he wanted to sort the banana split out.

I dunno how I'd react if someone kicked off on a bus like that if I was on it with my little boy.
Poor little guy would be scared out of his mind, not really fair on the kids :/

I think that's the bit that would get me - if I was on the bus with my kids, or just generally on a bus with kids on, and this sort of thing happened I don't think I'd be able to just sit there like pretty much everyone seemed to in that video.

It's a tricky situation though, on the one hand you've got to say fair play to the guys who eventually chased him off, but it's hard to know if confrontation is actually a good idea in these sorts of situations.

It is.

Fair enough if you've got kids then maybe not but I don't see how it can be argued that confrontation is a bad thing if someone's being a racist banana split. The only way people like that learn to shut their mouths is through at the very least the threat of brute force.

Moggy wrote:

Qikz wrote:Or Russian given the fact Polish is very close to Russian

I doubt drunk people on public transport are Russian. If they were in a Russ then it's only because the off licence is about to close.

Ban request.

Preezy wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Qikz wrote:Or Russian given the fact Polish is very close to Russian

I doubt drunk people on public transport are Russian. If they were in a Russ then it's only because the off licence is about to close.

Ban request.

You love my bad jokes. Admit it Preezy, you strawberry floating love it.

I'll never admit it.

You just did

Rocsteady wrote:

Jenuall wrote:

LewisD wrote:strawberry float that went from 0-100 real fast.

Fair play to the hard bastard on the bus who said he wanted to sort the banana split out.

I dunno how I'd react if someone kicked off on a bus like that if I was on it with my little boy.
Poor little guy would be scared out of his mind, not really fair on the kids :/

I think that's the bit that would get me - if I was on the bus with my kids, or just generally on a bus with kids on, and this sort of thing happened I don't think I'd be able to just sit there like pretty much everyone seemed to in that video.

It's a tricky situation though, on the one hand you've got to say fair play to the guys who eventually chased him off, but it's hard to know if confrontation is actually a good idea in these sorts of situations.

It is.

Fair enough if you've got kids then maybe not but I don't see how it can be argued that confrontation is a bad thing if someone's being a racist banana split. The only way people like that learn to shut their mouths is through at the very least the threat of brute force.

I'm not sure it is as simple as that.

My wife's work relates to violence and domestic abuse - she regularly has to read up on research to do with violent behaviour patterns, social disorders and the like - I'm a sucker for interesting research so I've read a bunch of it myself as a result. There's plenty of evidence that direct confrontation in these sorts of circumstances (unless handled appropriately) can result in the subject feeling greater justification for their position, in their heads they are right and anyone pushing back against that is further validation that there is a battle to be won.

Additionally a confrontation may provide a resolution to the immediate conflict but can result in an increased risk that the aggressor will repeat or even escalate their actions in the future.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that we do nothing to deal with people like this, they are despicable individuals who need to somehow understand that what they are doing is wrong and to change their views and behaviour, it's just that fighting fire with fire may not always be a good idea!

So you're saying we set banana splits like that on fire? I'm down with that.

Jenuall wrote:

Rocsteady wrote:

Jenuall wrote:

LewisD wrote:strawberry float that went from 0-100 real fast.

Fair play to the hard bastard on the bus who said he wanted to sort the banana split out.

I dunno how I'd react if someone kicked off on a bus like that if I was on it with my little boy.
Poor little guy would be scared out of his mind, not really fair on the kids :/

I think that's the bit that would get me - if I was on the bus with my kids, or just generally on a bus with kids on, and this sort of thing happened I don't think I'd be able to just sit there like pretty much everyone seemed to in that video.

It's a tricky situation though, on the one hand you've got to say fair play to the guys who eventually chased him off, but it's hard to know if confrontation is actually a good idea in these sorts of situations.

It is.

Fair enough if you've got kids then maybe not but I don't see how it can be argued that confrontation is a bad thing if someone's being a racist banana split. The only way people like that learn to shut their mouths is through at the very least the threat of brute force.

I'm not sure it is as simple as that.

My wife's work relates to violence and domestic abuse - she regularly has to read up on research to do with violent behaviour patterns, social disorders and the like - I'm a sucker for interesting research so I've read a bunch of it myself as a result. There's plenty of evidence that direct confrontation in these sorts of circumstances (unless handled appropriately) can result in the subject feeling greater justification for their position, in their heads they are right and anyone pushing back against that is further validation that there is a battle to be won.

Additionally a confrontation may provide a resolution to the immediate conflict but can result in an increased risk that the aggressor will repeat or even escalate their actions in the future.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that we do nothing to deal with people like this, they are despicable individuals who need to somehow understand that what they are doing is wrong and to change their views and behaviour, it's just that fighting fire with fire may not always be a good idea!

Fair enough, that is interesting. I shall demurr to your greater knowledge on the subject. I do find it difficult to keep my mouth shut if someone's being a prick though - not saying I'd act the hard banana split like, just really riles me up seeing people allowed to run their mouth unchallenged. Unless the guy's strawberry floating massive in which case I must admit to basically letting it slide once and letting him lay into some black dude verbally without much in the way of comeback except from trying to talk him down a bit. I think he was off his tits on coke though so was genuinely worried I was about to be hospitalised.

I think where a guy is clearly visibly unhinged like that and has lost all control of what he's doing or saying, then smacking him in the chops probably isn't the right thing to do.

If (and it's a big if) the guy is suffering from psychological issues (and to go from 0-100 like he did indicates there's probably an underlying issue there), then he should get some help and sympathy. If he's just a regular old knobhead then obviously that sympathy gets revoked.

The problem you also have when intervening is that there are too many nutjobs out there carrying knives.

My old work colleagues best mate intervened when a guy got on his bus and started throwing chips at his girlfriend. The guy asked him to stop and so the guy stabbed and killed him.

Rocsteady wrote:

Jenuall wrote:

Rocsteady wrote:

Jenuall wrote:

LewisD wrote:strawberry float that went from 0-100 real fast.

Fair play to the hard bastard on the bus who said he wanted to sort the banana split out.

I dunno how I'd react if someone kicked off on a bus like that if I was on it with my little boy.
Poor little guy would be scared out of his mind, not really fair on the kids :/

I think that's the bit that would get me - if I was on the bus with my kids, or just generally on a bus with kids on, and this sort of thing happened I don't think I'd be able to just sit there like pretty much everyone seemed to in that video.

It's a tricky situation though, on the one hand you've got to say fair play to the guys who eventually chased him off, but it's hard to know if confrontation is actually a good idea in these sorts of situations.

It is.

Fair enough if you've got kids then maybe not but I don't see how it can be argued that confrontation is a bad thing if someone's being a racist banana split. The only way people like that learn to shut their mouths is through at the very least the threat of brute force.

I'm not sure it is as simple as that.

My wife's work relates to violence and domestic abuse - she regularly has to read up on research to do with violent behaviour patterns, social disorders and the like - I'm a sucker for interesting research so I've read a bunch of it myself as a result. There's plenty of evidence that direct confrontation in these sorts of circumstances (unless handled appropriately) can result in the subject feeling greater justification for their position, in their heads they are right and anyone pushing back against that is further validation that there is a battle to be won.

Additionally a confrontation may provide a resolution to the immediate conflict but can result in an increased risk that the aggressor will repeat or even escalate their actions in the future.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that we do nothing to deal with people like this, they are despicable individuals who need to somehow understand that what they are doing is wrong and to change their views and behaviour, it's just that fighting fire with fire may not always be a good idea!

Fair enough, that is interesting. I shall demurr to your greater knowledge on the subject. I do find it difficult to keep my mouth shut if someone's being a prick though - not saying I'd act the hard banana split like, just really riles me up seeing people allowed to run their mouth unchallenged. Unless the guy's strawberry floating massive in which case I must admit to basically letting it slide once and letting him lay into some black dude verbally without much in the way of comeback except from trying to talk him down a bit. I think he was off his tits on coke though so was genuinely worried I was about to be hospitalised.

Yeah I've struggled with this myself. You want to do something in these situations, but need to make a snap decision based on a whole bunch of factors:

* Am I actually going to help/make this situation worse?
* Am I putting myself in the firing line - how much risk am I prepared to take on myself?
* Have I understood the situation - there may be more to a conflict than there appears to be on the surface

I tend to get involved in these situations, mainly due to the whole "the only thing needed for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing" argument

Yeah it's awful. I can't link on my phone but it was quite well reported at the time. Just Google man chips killed bus and it will bring up all the articles. I think the guy had only just been released from prison the same day.

Albear wrote:Yeah it's awful. I can't link on my phone but it was quite well reported at the time. Just Google man chips killed bus and it will bring up all the articles. I think the guy had only just been released from prison the same day.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1551142/Random-bus-stabbing-caught-on-film.html

Sounds horrible

Christ that's strawberry floated up. I've been lucky enough never to have a knife pulled, heard plenty stories and saw someone get stabbed though. There are some reprehensible banana splits going round, just need to try and remember they're in the minute minority.

This kinda brings back bad memories for me when a guy (and some people are like this) at a workplace got drunk and increasingly picked on me and others until I confronted him (well, actually I put my hand on his arm and told him I was sorry he was upset about whatever it was), completely lost his gooseberry fool, bolt upright and started yelling at me red in the face.

Pretty much immediately triggered an anxiety attack and after months of small aggressions from him I chucked a pint glass against the wall (in the pub) and told him straight up he was a banana split and left. He tried to apologise but I never went back there for 6 months.

That whole red in the face screaming thing that suddenly goes from a 5 or 6 to 11 is a really frightening thing, when the guy just starts smashing gooseberry fool you know he's 100% lost control of his anger.

But it all starts at a point and some people can't stop it at all. For most people it's a very small rush of anger under threat (like smashing a glass, punching a wall and then winding yourself down etc. after that releas), for others it just keeps going and going until they hurt themselves or potentially kill someone. That's when you really have a problem.

Squinty wrote:What a contemptible psychotic wanker.

Careful, psychotic = psychosis
You're thinking of psychopathic, which means a total lack of empathy for others.

Psychosis is a different condition where people hallucinate and can't tell the difference between reality and what's going on in their mind. Most psychotic people are completely harmless, they just struggle to know what's going on and sometimes have paranoid delusions but are rarely dangerous to anyone but themselves.

Psychopaths can be dangerous, but not always, because they won't necessarily have any remorse if they really want to hurt or even kill someone, because they don't necessarily have any sense to preserve life, or even their own life. For those psychopaths that are dangerous (as opposed to, for example, stock traders or politicians murder is A-OK because who cares etc.

Yeah, that's the word I'm looking for Gecko. Was not aware of the definition of that word.

np just looking out for the people who get mislabelled, my mate was psychotic, don't do drugs kids

(although it did bring out the fact he was a closet racist however which sucked )

For anyone interested: http://yourselfseries.com/teens/topic/m ... psychotic/

It is somewhat likely that people who act out violently in public because of stupid gooseberry fool like racist beliefs have psychopathic traits, because they clearly give zero strawberry floats about the effect on those around them.

But to be a true psychopath, you'd have to act like this regularly and ritually. For example that's what a serial killer is.

Most psychopaths are just arseholes however.

I once met a psychotic homeless guy who was convinced he was (a) a spaceship but he was waiting for his engine to arrive from another planet or something and (b) a gigantic hard disk array that stretched into infinity.

He was strange but pretty harmless. He also played the flute.

twitter.com/_sjpeace_/status/1053743128564416512

That was handled terribly by Ryanair. The gammon prick abuses the lady and she ends up moving and the racist prick stayed where he was.

That’s unbelievable. The staff actually checked HE was alright. Should have chucked him off the plane

Moggy wrote:...That was handled terribly by Ryanair. The gammon prick abuses the lady and she ends up moving and the racist prick stayed where he was.

For absolute clarity before I say this... there's no doubt that the guy's language is absolutely disgusting and shameful. There is no excuse for that kind of behaviour. It is unacceptable and no-one should have to face that.

But I do wonder about using the descriptive term "gammon". I believe it is a derogatory term based on the colour of a person's skin? In my view, using it detracts from the point that is being made; it is the same kind of approach that we - rightly, of course - call out when horrible terms are used in other situations.

I wondered if perhaps I misunderstood the term but I don't believe I have; this opinion piece appears to be a reasonable summary of what feels to be the common ground. I recognise, of course, that the history of the term goes further back... but it still feels to be something that mirrors unwanted language rather than goes against it.