Red Dead Redemption 2

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by Tafdolphin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:34 pm

Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:If someone is working 100 hour weeks they are either:

1) being cowed into doing this by poor management or industry expectation.
2) a workaholic, and will eventually work themselves to death.

Either separately or as a combination of the two and every permutation is bad. Really bad.

What if it is was a short term, volountary situation that resulted in personal gain that you deemed worthwhile for said hardship?


Please see numero 2. And numero 1. Also, we can all pull hypotheticals out of the air. That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about an industry with a history of worker abuse and a tradition of crunching.

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by 7256930752 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:37 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:If someone is working 100 hour weeks they are either:

1) being cowed into doing this by poor management or industry expectation.
2) a workaholic, and will eventually work themselves to death.

Either separately or as a combination of the two and every permutation is bad. Really bad.

What if it is was a short term, volountary situation that resulted in personal gain that you deemed worthwhile for said hardship?


Please see numero 2

What about if the person worked really hard for a short amount of time to get themselves into a comfortable position so that they could live comfortably and enjoy a good standard of life?

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by Tafdolphin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:38 pm

Please see my amended post. This sort of "What about in THIS situation?!?" is not progressing the conversation at all.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by OrangeRKN » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:40 pm

100 hour weeks are a bad idea from a health and well-being perspective and a productivity perspective, but I'd say they can be justified in certain situations (i.e. where life is on the line). I have a friend who works in the police and had a couple of weeks of very intense work, and situations like that are both sensitive and can't be predicted. I don't think poorly of the management over that, especially when they have a limited budget to work with.

The games industry on the other hand has no such excuse. They are just games at the end of the day.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by KK » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:41 pm

If this was ResetEra you’d all be banned now.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by Victor Mildew » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:42 pm

KK wrote:If this was ResetEra you’d all be banned now.


Yikes.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by 7256930752 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:43 pm

Ok let's just agree that there are situations where 100 hour weeks are necessary but gaming isn't one of them and that there is no demonstrable reward for exploring in BOTW.

Fin.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by Tafdolphin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:47 pm

Hime wrote:Ok let's just agree that there are situations where 100 hour weeks are necessary but gaming isn't one of them and that there is no demonstrable reward for exploring in BOTW.

Fin.


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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by the eponymous bollock » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:19 pm

Hime wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:I don't agree, I was still discovering things 100 hours in. There is also a solid story direction from the opening through the great plateau, Kakariko and Hateno to Zora's domain and the first divine beast, if that's what you want to follow, which can occupy the first maybe 20 hours or so. It's lacking in narrative but I couldn't say there is no story progression at all. I think the Gerudo desert has a decent flow to it too, from getting into the city through the Yiga clan and culminating with the divine beast. I also liked the progression of Tarrey Town.

To bring it back on topic though I'm fully expecting RDR2 to be an awful lot more narrative driven. I hope it leaves enough breathing space in the plot for taking on side activities and generally exploring.

What exactly have you discovered 100 hours in that you hadn't seen before? I'm genuinely curious.


I was still finding NPCs after 400 hours.

Even precluding any of the DLC I’d estimate that there are still side quests to finish and shrines to find after 100 hours. Failing that there’s discovering all the places on the map like the ruined villages, prisons, hot springs, mini games and other environmental story telling etc. There’s also getting collecting all the gear sets, discovering new species of animals and filling out your compendium. There’s more or less depending on when you’re drawing the line of ‘discoveries’.


I’m interested in how Rockstar moves their particular brand of open world forward. I’m hoping for something with a bit more of an organic feel and more interesting quests plus better writing. RDR is probably my favourite game of there’s and I’ll imagine this will score 10s across the board from critics, the appraisal 1 month on from people on here is what I’m more interested in though.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by BOR » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:27 pm

Can’t wait for next Friday. 8-)

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by jiggles » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:33 pm

The thing about large, complicated software projects is that there are inevitably dependencies from one component to another.

Team A could be working on a crucial part of the product that is blocking Teams B through G, with Team H and N just about to move on to work that is dependent on Team D and F's work in a couple of sprints.

Good planning can minimise the chance of dependency impact, but it's impossible to eliminate it, and for a studio as huge as this, on a project this complex, the situation where a team has to crunch to avoid a bunch more people being sat on their hands with nothing in the pot for a week, is sadly unavoidable.

It's good that other studios are out there with their go-get-em attitude, putting the word out that work life balance and sustainable pace are their priorities, but at the same time:

- ya ain't having to corral this many people and
- ya ain't making Red Dead Redemption 2

I believe 100 hour work weeks are horrific and should be illegal, but the cases where they do happen aren't exclusively "poor management!" or "workaholics!"

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by Floex » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:43 pm

Hime wrote:Ok let's just agree that there are situations where 100 hour weeks are necessary but gaming isn't one of them and that there is no demonstrable reward for exploring in BOTW.

Fin.


I've still yet to understand your argument. If we're talking about 5 day working week, that's working 20 HOURS A DAY. Ok, some situations may call for a day or 2 of hard graft but in what world is it acceptable to be working for so long?

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by Mafro » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:53 pm

Ad7 wrote:
KK wrote:If this was ResetEra you’d all be banned now.


Yikes.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by 7256930752 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:53 pm

Floex wrote:
Hime wrote:Ok let's just agree that there are situations where 100 hour weeks are necessary but gaming isn't one of them and that there is no demonstrable reward for exploring in BOTW.

Fin.


I've still yet to understand your argument. If we're talking about 5 day working week, that's working 20 HOURS A DAY. Ok, some situations may call for a day or 2 of hard graft but in what world is it acceptable to be working for so long?

It's clearly not over a 5 day week.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by Floex » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:21 pm

Hime wrote:
Floex wrote:
Hime wrote:Ok let's just agree that there are situations where 100 hour weeks are necessary but gaming isn't one of them and that there is no demonstrable reward for exploring in BOTW.

Fin.


I've still yet to understand your argument. If we're talking about 5 day working week, that's working 20 HOURS A DAY. Ok, some situations may call for a day or 2 of hard graft but in what world is it acceptable to be working for so long?

It's clearly not over a 5 day week.


ok, so over 7, no days off and you're working 14 or so hours a day. This is not healthy or acceptable.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by 7256930752 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:28 pm

Floex wrote:
Hime wrote:
Floex wrote:
Hime wrote:Ok let's just agree that there are situations where 100 hour weeks are necessary but gaming isn't one of them and that there is no demonstrable reward for exploring in BOTW.

Fin.


I've still yet to understand your argument. If we're talking about 5 day working week, that's working 20 HOURS A DAY. Ok, some situations may call for a day or 2 of hard graft but in what world is it acceptable to be working for so long?

It's clearly not over a 5 day week.


ok, so over 7, no days off and you're working 14 or so hours a day. This is not healthy or acceptable.

But it's presumably over a short period of time. As Jiggles said it's sometimes what happens when you need to get projects through to completion. It's gooseberry fool and it's hard but sometimes there is no way around it.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by KingK » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:07 am

Can we change the topic title to reflect that this thread is no.longer about RDR2?

Seriously chaps, take it to PM or somewhere else. The last few pages are not topic related.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by Victor Mildew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:44 am

26/10 damn that's a good review score :o

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by Banjo » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:43 am

Do we know if all of this overtime is paid? Weren't there people from Telltale explaining to people that the crunch culture there involved unpaid overtime? This has genuinely put me off getting the game, it's not as if Rockstar are some struggling studio trying to make ends meet, they can surely afford to not subject workers to such horrid working conditions.

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PostRe: Red Dead Redemption 2 - PS4, XB - 26/10
by NickSCFC » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:45 am

I've made a thread for this "100 hour weeks" story, can we please go back to discussing the game in this thread

t:rockstar-developers-quotworking-100-hour-weeksquot?f=2


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