Religion

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Moggy
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PostRe: Religion
by Moggy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:54 am

Jenuall wrote:I don't see it as my role to go around badgering people about their beliefs or aggressively trying to convert them to Christianity - some might argue this means I'm doing it wrong, but there you go!


I’d say you have gotten it exactly right. Nobody likes a badger, they are full of TB.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Religion
by Jenuall » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:56 am

Moggy wrote:
Jenuall wrote:I don't see it as my role to go around badgering people about their beliefs or aggressively trying to convert them to Christianity - some might argue this means I'm doing it wrong, but there you go!


I’d say you have gotten it exactly right. Nobody likes a badger, they are full of TB.


Good call, I shall continue to avoid badgers and badgering at all costs!

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Preezy
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PostRe: Religion
by Preezy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:57 am

Jenuall wrote:Christian here.

Ok so now we've trapped you in our stealth atheist thread (don't try the door, it's locked with logic and evidence!) I've got some questions:

Do you believe everything in the Bible happened, or only bits of it?
Do you believe that God hears and answers prayers (i.e. does He intervene?)?
Do you get your morals from your religion?

Feel free to not answer them, but I'm always really interested in what people believe.

edit: I'm a badger and I have TB.

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PostRe: Religion
by Jenuall » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:23 pm

Preezy wrote:
Jenuall wrote:Christian here.

Ok so now we've trapped you in our stealth atheist thread (don't try the door, it's locked with logic and evidence!) I've got some questions:


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I knew it! :D

Preezy wrote:Do you believe everything in the Bible happened, or only bits of it?


I don't claim in any way to be a theological scholar so my opinions here are probably well wide of the mark compared to what might be considered more agreed amongst those circles, but no I don't believe it all happened.

I think it's a series of books, letters, poems and songs that vary wildly in whether they are, or are intend to be, historically accurate, but which which each have some value in terms of understanding the nature of being a Christian and offering lessons, warnings, insight, and context for a generally solid way of living your life.

Preezy wrote:Do you believe that God hears and answers prayers (i.e. does He intervene?)?


In all honesty I have gone back and forth on this issue, but generally I would say yes. But is that a firm belief or a more tentative hope? Hard to quantify and as I say my views have changed lots.

Preezy wrote:Do you get your morals from your religion?


As I didn't grow up religious I would say no - my morals were pretty well founded well before I became a Christian. Living in the UK and with the history of religious involvement in the shaping of our national laws and morals though I guess you have to say that to a degree we all get some of our morals from religion.

Generally I would say that I was just as good a person before becoming a Christian - personally I wouldn't say I have had to re-evaluate anything I do as a result of it. The things I knew were wrong before are still wrong and the things that I personally do which I know I shouldn't still disappoint me. It's possible I beat myself up a bit more about doing the wrong thing now than I used to, but not to any major degree, and it's possible that this is more of an effect of ageing and having kids than religion - I see the impact of my mistakes more now and realise that I am not young and have all the time in the world to get things wrong and correct it.

Preezy wrote:Feel free to not answer them, but I'm always really interested in what people believe.

edit: I'm a badger and I have TB.


No worries, I have no problems chatting about these things.

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Religion
by Drumstick » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:33 pm

Jenuall wrote:I don't see it as my role to go around badgering people about their beliefs or aggressively trying to convert them to Christianity - some might argue this means I'm doing it wrong, but there you go!

I'd say you've got it right. Personally I think the recruitment side of it (all religions, and cults for that matter) should be illegal. People are perfectly capable of investigating it for it themselves if they should feel so inclined, but targeting folks, some of whom that may be vulnerable or simply naive is not on.

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Preezy
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PostRe: Religion
by Preezy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:36 pm

Jenuall wrote:Answers

Thanks for replying, Jenuall, very interesting and well thought-out answers!

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Preezy
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PostRe: Religion
by Preezy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:38 pm

It's gooseberry fool like this that winds me up

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-43006171
Anti-abortion activists have begun a 40-day "vigil" next to a Nottingham hospital - despite the trust asking them to stay away.

The Christian movement, called 40 Days for Life, insists its presence at the Queen's Medical Centre is "peaceful".

However, researchers into this type of activism have said it is a form of street harassment that is "incredibly intimidating and distressing".

The hospital said the activists had previously caused "distress".

Boils my piss.

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Hyperion
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PostRe: Religion
by Hyperion » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:43 pm

Scientology's obviously the correct religion though. That's just scientific fact

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Religion
by Drumstick » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:44 pm

Yeah that is not on. They have their right to free speech (not that I agree with their protest) but they should respect the hospital's request to stay away from the premises.

This is exactly what I was saying about it being a two-way street. They're often the ones complaining about being persecuted but it's usually because they won't show respect to another entity's request.

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Ad7
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PostRe: Religion
by Ad7 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:08 pm

God is a gas. I mean not a small gas like calor gas or something, a big one, like c02. Oh wait no that's the devil.

Imagining falsey sitting in church with his little checked shirt on buttoned up to the neck, listening to all that preaching while thinking about battering his girlfriend's ring piece after :lol:

Praise Jesus!

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Moggy
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PostRe: Religion
by Moggy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:13 pm

Preezy wrote:It's gooseberry fool like this that winds me up

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-43006171
Anti-abortion activists have begun a 40-day "vigil" next to a Nottingham hospital - despite the trust asking them to stay away.

The Christian movement, called 40 Days for Life, insists its presence at the Queen's Medical Centre is "peaceful".

However, researchers into this type of activism have said it is a form of street harassment that is "incredibly intimidating and distressing".

The hospital said the activists had previously caused "distress".

Boils my piss.


We should organise a "Devil Worshipping" protest outside of their church. As long as we stay peaceful then I am sure they would have no problem with it.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Religion
by Jenuall » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:15 pm

Preezy wrote:
Jenuall wrote:Answers

Thanks for replying, Jenuall, very interesting and well thought-out answers!


No worries. Like I say I don't think it's my job to convert people but it is important to be share and be open to discussion. :)

Preezy wrote:It's gooseberry fool like this that winds me up

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-43006171
Anti-abortion activists have begun a 40-day "vigil" next to a Nottingham hospital - despite the trust asking them to stay away.

The Christian movement, called 40 Days for Life, insists its presence at the Queen's Medical Centre is "peaceful".

However, researchers into this type of activism have said it is a form of street harassment that is "incredibly intimidating and distressing".

The hospital said the activists had previously caused "distress".

Boils my piss.


Yeah there's no condoning that.

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Garth
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PostRe: Religion
by Garth » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:24 pm

Most religious people I've met turn out to be massive hypocrites and pick and choose which parts of thier religion to follow. Waste of time if you ask me.

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PostRe: Religion
by False » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:53 pm

Ad7 wrote:God is a gas. I mean not a small gas like calor gas or something, a big one, like c02. Oh wait no that's the devil.

Imagining falsey sitting in church with his little checked shirt on buttoned up to the neck, listening to all that preaching while thinking about battering his girlfriend's ring piece after :lol:

Praise Jesus!


You know what the funny thing is, Ive mentioned this to my gf. Im strawberry floated up, right, this isnt news. Spending a few hours in a church with all these icons of Jesus getting strawberry floating merked and being surrounded by aggressively normal and friendly people, it really really plays on your moral weaknesses and insecurities. I can totally see how you can be indoctrinated into shame and praying and flagellation.

Ive been sat in church for a few hours and thought about gooseberry fool and just always end up leaving thinking about what a terrible person I am. Im not listening to the preaching or the services, just the environment is enough to send you into a spiral. I really dont like the place. I think its the total isolation whilst being surrounded that does it.

Still, hasnt stopped me playing with bumholes yet.

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Religion
by Drumstick » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:55 pm

Ad7 wrote:Oh wait no that's the devil.

You're thinking of Derren Brown.

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PostRe: Religion
by Hexx » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:59 pm

Garth wrote:Most religious people I've met turn out to be massive hypocrites and pick and choose which parts of thier religion to follow. Waste of time if you ask me.


Yeah if a religious actually followed all aspects of their chosen text, I'd have some respect for them.

But the approach of "respect the beliefs I've cherry picked" position always makes me chuckle.

As is the approach religious beliefs are somehow more special and deserving of unique treatment than other opinions.

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Preezy
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PostRe: Religion
by Preezy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:15 pm

Jenuall wrote:
Preezy wrote:Do you believe that God hears and answers prayers (i.e. does He intervene?)?

In all honesty I have gone back and forth on this issue, but generally I would say yes. But is that a firm belief or a more tentative hope? Hard to quantify and as I say my views have changed lots.

As I said I appreciate your responses, and I don't want to gooseberry fool on anyone's beliefs (unless it would be hilarious to do so) but I do have some follow up questions to this point (fully aware that your views on this aren't necessarily permanent and defined):

If God answers some prayers, why doesn't he answer others? I'll use a bog-standard analogy of a footballer praying to God before a football match and then thanking Him for letting his team win, whilst over in Africa a child is dying of AIDS and the mother is praying to God to save it, but the baby still dies.

Why doesn't God heal amputees? Since records began (waaaay back when, like before the 80s) there hasn't been a single documented case of a person managing to grow back an amputated limb. Surely God is getting amputees praying to Him to help them, but He clearly isn't answering their prayers. I find that a bit off to be honest, it shows that He's only interested in answering the easy prayers like finding your car keys or winning a Grammy, as opposed to the really serious human condition stuff like helping children avoid molestation or disease, or stopping natural disasters.

Also bonus silly question for the lolz:

Could God create a being more powerful than Himself?

Answers on a postcard.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Religion
by Jenuall » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:21 pm

Hexx wrote:
Garth wrote:Most religious people I've met turn out to be massive hypocrites and pick and choose which parts of thier religion to follow. Waste of time if you ask me.


Yeah if a religious actually followed all aspects of their chosen text, I'd have some respect for them.

But the approach of "respect the beliefs I've cherry picked" position always makes me chuckle.


Obviously I can't speak for all religions, or indeed all Christians, however I think this strikes at a misunderstanding of what the Bible is. It's not a Version 4.0, Final, Remastered GOTY edition manual of "all things one must do to live their life correctly". It's a series of different documents written across a large span of time that serve varying purposes for the reader and illustrate a process of developing understanding of what it means to be a Christian - a process that is still ongoing to this day.

Am I a hypocrite for not following every suggestion from every book in the Bible? I would argue not based on the above reasoning, however I've no problem if people disagree with that. Ultimately following everything or not isn't what determines whether I am a good person - my actions are, and that is the same for everyone, religious or not.

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Hyperion
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PostRe: Religion
by Hyperion » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:26 pm

Preezy wrote:Also bonus silly question for the lolz:

Could God create a being more powerful than Himself?

Answers on a postcard.


No. God is supposedly omnipotent

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Hexx
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PostRe: Religion
by Hexx » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:26 pm

Jenuall wrote:
Hexx wrote:
Garth wrote:Most religious people I've met turn out to be massive hypocrites and pick and choose which parts of thier religion to follow. Waste of time if you ask me.


Yeah if a religious actually followed all aspects of their chosen text, I'd have some respect for them.

But the approach of "respect the beliefs I've cherry picked" position always makes me chuckle.


Obviously I can't speak for all religions, or indeed all Christians, however I think this strikes at a misunderstanding of what the Bible is. It's not a Version 4.0, Final, Remastered GOTY edition manual of "all things one must do to live their life correctly". It's a series of different documents written across a large span of time that serve varying purposes for the reader and illustrate a process of developing understanding of what it means to be a Christian - a process that is still ongoing to this day.


Well that's fine. But you (generic you, not Jenuall you) can't have it both ways.

If you want to treat "religious beliefs" as some sort of special status sacrosanct rule set that society shouldn't interfere in or impose restrictions on - it can't also be that wiffley.

Otherwise it's just a "belief", same as any other on any topic, and should hold no special status.


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