US Politics - Trump cancels summit having to do with North Korea

Moggy wrote:

Preezy wrote:Well the fact that students pay high fees is irrelevant. They're purchasing a service, that doesn't mean they should have a say in what the university does.

I actually think you are very wrong there. Look at any other business (which is what the uni is if they are charging), do customers not get a say in how the place is run?

Oh without a doubt you can have your say, but it doesn't give you ANY right to expect the business to listen to you and agree to your demands, and nor should it.

If people paid universities for tuition AND to be on their ethics board or whatever then sure, but that's not what happens.

I don't know why Universities would want to invite someone who spreads hate speech, the guy got banned from Twitter for racially abusing people and recently singled out a transgender student at one of these events by name and with a photograph and accused them of being a man trying to find his way into women's toilets.

Moggy wrote:

Aside from that though, they are well within their rights to protest what someone is saying. I have no issue with that at all, and I'd probably join them (if I took the time to read this Milo's stuff). But I just disagree that they should protest against this Milo guy even being allowed to speak. I just think that's wrong. Should they be allowed to protest it? Sure, but that doesn't mean they should actually do that.

None of that makes sense. They should be allowed to protest, you would join the protest but they shouldn't actually protest?

No, I would join a protest that was disagreeing with what someone says, but I wouldn't join a protest demanding that a person be stopped from speaking.

Preezy wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Preezy wrote:Well the fact that students pay high fees is irrelevant. They're purchasing a service, that doesn't mean they should have a say in what the university does.

I actually think you are very wrong there. Look at any other business (which is what the uni is if they are charging), do customers not get a say in how the place is run?

Oh without a doubt you can have your say, but it doesn't give you ANY right to expect the business to listen to you and agree to your demands, and nor should it.

If people paid universities for tuition AND to be on their ethics board or whatever then sure, but that's not what happens.

A business that doesn’t listen to its customers will very soon not be a business anymore. They should absolutely listen to people that protest.

Sure one crazy person in the pub demanding an obscure Tibetan larger (as in the drink larger) should probably be ignored. 300 customers demanding the same thing though should probably be taken into consideration.

Meanwhile, at a National Prayer Breakfast meeting...

President Trump offered up a prayer to Arnold Schwarzenegger, Trump's replacement as host on "The Celebrity Apprentice", as he addressed the audience at this morning's National Prayer Breakfast.

"They hired a big movie star, Arnold Schwarzenegger to take my place, and we know how that turned out,"

"The ratings went right down the tubes, folks. It's been a total disaster. And Mark will never, ever bet against Trump again, and I want to just pray for Arnold, if we can, for those ratings. They're bad. So bad,"

Trump continued, "When you hear about the tough phone calls I'm having...don't worry about it...They're tough. We have to be tough."

A) you can't help but read it in his voice it's so ingrained in the brain b) this is HILARIOUS and surreal at the same time. It's like a parody.

Preezy wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Aside from that though, they are well within their rights to protest what someone is saying. I have no issue with that at all, and I'd probably join them (if I took the time to read this Milo's stuff). But I just disagree that they should protest against this Milo guy even being allowed to speak. I just think that's wrong. Should they be allowed to protest it? Sure, but that doesn't mean they should actually do that.

None of that makes sense. They should be allowed to protest, you would join the protest but they shouldn't actually protest?

No, I would join a protest that was disagreeing with what someone says, but I wouldn't join a protest demanding that a person be stopped from speaking.

Ok, so we can amend your earlier post to say:

To be fair, people shouldn't be banned from speaking anywhere, freedom of speech should be protected regardless of whether or not you agree with what's being said. People protesting someone speaking at a university should be allowed to protest what they're saying.

I think the only possible caveats to that is when people are directly inciting violence against others or if they are protesting to stop that person from being allowed to speak.

Better?

He's (unsurprisingly) going to take action against the legal separation between Church and State

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 59421.html

Garth wrote:I don't know why Universities would want to invite someone who spreads hate speech, the guy got banned from Twitter for racially abusing people and recently singled out a transgender student at one of these events by name and with a photograph and accused them of being a man trying to find his way into women's toilets.

That's a good question - there's probably an element of self-promotion there "ooh did you hear about that university who invited so-and-so, that must be a really interesting place to study, they have lots of varied opinions and debate etc".

And from what you've said, this guy sounds like a massive knobhead.

Moggy wrote:Better?

Whatever shuts you up, man

KKLEIN wrote:Meanwhile, at a National Prayer Breakfast meeting...

President Trump offered up a prayer to Arnold Schwarzenegger, Trump's replacement as host on "The Celebrity Apprentice", as he addressed the audience at this morning's National Prayer Breakfast.

"They hired a big movie star, Arnold Schwarzenegger to take my place, and we know how that turned out,"

"The ratings went right down the tubes, folks. It's been a total disaster. And Mark will never, ever bet against Trump again, and I want to just pray for Arnold, if we can, for those ratings. They're bad. So bad,"

Trump continued, "When you hear about the tough phone calls I'm having...don't worry about it...They're tough. We have to be tough."

A) you can't help but read it in his voice it's so ingrained in the brain b) this is HILARIOUS and surreal at the same time. It's like a parody.

He's so insanely petty! I wouldn't be surprised if there's something medically wrong with him and his mental state gets worse over his Presidency. He's already in his 70s...

KKLEIN wrote:A) you can't help but read it in his voice it's so ingrained in the brain b) this is HILARIOUS and surreal at the same time. It's like a parody.

This

In 20 years we'll look back* on his Presidency and go "oh Donald, what a character "



*as irradiated skeletons

Preezy wrote:

Moggy wrote:Better?

Whatever shuts you up, man

Stop replying to me and I will stop replying to you.

The fact he repeats himself twice all the time using the same stock phrases only makes it even funnier. And then it begins to rub off on you! It's like he's mentally eroding your brain every time he speaks. Every time he turns up,

"Trust me"
"Believe me, folks"
"So bad, so bad"
"It's been a total disaster"
"The worst, the worst"
"Terrible, just terrible"
"I spoke to..."
"Many people are saying..."
"The smartest people...so smart"
"We're going to be tough on crime...so tough. So smart. The smartest."

It's like a sitcom where you're waiting for the equivalent of "Are you avin a laugh? Is he avin a laugh?". And then just like a sitcom, the canned laughter and applause comes in courtesy of his goon squad that accompany him everywhere.

And no matter where he is it always reverts back to him, even if the subject is completely unrelated.

twitter.com/therealcliffyb/status/827188759900856320

Moggy wrote:

Preezy wrote:Well the fact that students pay high fees is irrelevant. They're purchasing a service, that doesn't mean they should have a say in what the university does.

I actually think you are very wrong there. Look at any other business (which is what the uni is if they are charging), do customers not get a say in how the place is run?

If your local pub starts selling shitty beer, are you not entitled to tell the landlord that you will not come back unless he ups his game?

If your local music arena/hall/stadium is booking shitty bands, are you not entitled to tell them that you will not come back unless they up their game?

If your favourite restaurant has a dip in quality, are you not entitled to complain and tell them that you will go elsewhere if the don’t up their game?

What’s the difference between a shitty steak and Milo?

Those are all terrible analogies. You make it seem as if you have no choice but to drink at that pub, or go to that concert so you are demanding they change their practice.

That's really what this was. A student group at the university invited Milo to speak, not the university itself, and people were protesting. They are fully within their right to protest what he says but they should not be trying to ban him from speaking. There are plenty of people there who did want to hear him speak.

To use your own example it's like if I came to the pub you go to and demanded that beer wasn't served because me and my associates don't like it.

Or going to a stadium and getting a gig you wanted to go to cancelled because I don't like the music you like.

Or for a more British example, banning the kind of porn you watch because I don't agree with it.

To be fair, the porn Moggy enjoys should be banned.

Rightey wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Preezy wrote:Well the fact that students pay high fees is irrelevant. They're purchasing a service, that doesn't mean they should have a say in what the university does.

I actually think you are very wrong there. Look at any other business (which is what the uni is if they are charging), do customers not get a say in how the place is run?

If your local pub starts selling shitty beer, are you not entitled to tell the landlord that you will not come back unless he ups his game?

If your local music arena/hall/stadium is booking shitty bands, are you not entitled to tell them that you will not come back unless they up their game?

If your favourite restaurant has a dip in quality, are you not entitled to complain and tell them that you will go elsewhere if the don’t up their game?

What’s the difference between a shitty steak and Milo?

Those are all terrible analogies. You make it seem as if you have no choice but to drink at that pub, or go to that concert so you are demanding they change their practice.

That's really what this was. A student group at the university invited Milo to speak, not the university itself, and people were protesting. They are fully within their right to protest what he says but they should not be trying to ban him from speaking. There are plenty of people there who did want to hear him speak.

To use your own example it's like if I came to the pub you go to and demanded that beer wasn't served because me and my associates don't like it.

Or going to a stadium and getting a gig you wanted to go to cancelled because I don't like the music you like.

Or for a more British example, banning the kind of porn you watch because I don't agree with it.

Out of interest - what's to stop the group going to, say, Milo's house to hear him speak?
Or hiring a convention centre?
Or inviting him to their abode?
Or meeting him in a field?

No platforming is not suppression of free speech - and no one has been prohibited from hearing him.

And actually you're dismissal of the comparison is pretty poor - you do have to drink at the pub/go to the gig essentially. You're on a 2-5 year course. It's not a simple matter of going down the road to another pub (with fitter chicks and better beer)

Preezy wrote:To be fair, the porn Moggy stars in should be banned.

Hexx wrote:

Rightey wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Preezy wrote:Well the fact that students pay high fees is irrelevant. They're purchasing a service, that doesn't mean they should have a say in what the university does.

I actually think you are very wrong there. Look at any other business (which is what the uni is if they are charging), do customers not get a say in how the place is run?

If your local pub starts selling shitty beer, are you not entitled to tell the landlord that you will not come back unless he ups his game?

If your local music arena/hall/stadium is booking shitty bands, are you not entitled to tell them that you will not come back unless they up their game?

If your favourite restaurant has a dip in quality, are you not entitled to complain and tell them that you will go elsewhere if the don’t up their game?

What’s the difference between a shitty steak and Milo?

Those are all terrible analogies. You make it seem as if you have no choice but to drink at that pub, or go to that concert so you are demanding they change their practice.

That's really what this was. A student group at the university invited Milo to speak, not the university itself, and people were protesting. They are fully within their right to protest what he says but they should not be trying to ban him from speaking. There are plenty of people there who did want to hear him speak.

To use your own example it's like if I came to the pub you go to and demanded that beer wasn't served because me and my associates don't like it.

Or going to a stadium and getting a gig you wanted to go to cancelled because I don't like the music you like.

Or for a more British example, banning the kind of porn you watch because I don't agree with it.

Out of interest - what's to stop the group going to, say, Milo's house to hear him speak?
Or hiring a convention centre?
Or inviting him to their abode?
Or meeting him in a field?

No platforming is not suppression of free speech - and no one has been prohibited from hearing him.

And actually you're dismissal of the comparison is pretty poor - you do have to drink at the pub/go to the gig essentially. You're on a 2-5 year course. It's not a simple matter of going down the road to another pub (with fitter chicks and better beer)

Well seeing as they are a university group who also attends this univeristy I would assume they get better rates for booking a venue on campus.

No one forces you to go to these events, you can choose to ignore it, or you can go and protest what this dickhead is saying but he should not be stopped from simply going to speak.

The point is this group of students organized the event, they go to this school as well, and the tickets to see Milo speak sold out very quickly. Why should others have the power to shut down an event they organized.

Universities are all about people talking and challenging each other with different opinions, not blocking others from being able to speak.