US Politics - Trump cancels summit having to do with North Korea

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by KK » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:02 pm

UK tourists to US may get asked to hand in passwords or be denied entry

Although mitigation options exist, lawyers warn attempts to protect personal data may be seen as ‘probable cause’ for searching

British travellers to the United States face the uncomfortable choice of handing over personal information, including social media passwords and mobile phone contacts, or running the risk of being denied entry to the country, under a new “extreme vetting” policy being considered by the Trump administration.

Tourists from the UK and other US allies including Germany and France, could be forced to reveal personal data, as well as disclose financial information and face detailed ideological questioning, according to Trump administration officials quoted by the Wall Street Journal. While US citizens have established rights against unlawful searches at the border, the extent to which foreign travellers can resist requests to hand over personal information is unclear.

The US customs and border patrol told the Guardian: “All international travellers arriving to the US are subject to US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) inspection. This inspection may include electronic devices such as computers, disks, drives, tapes, mobile phones and other communication devices, cameras, music and other media players and any other electronic or digital devices.

“Keeping America safe and enforcing our nation’s laws in an increasingly digital world depends on our ability to lawfully examine all materials entering the US,” it added. The CBP said it strives to process arriving travellers as efficiently and securely as possible while ensuring compliance with laws and regulations governing the international arrival process. It did not answer specific questions about social media accounts and devices.

The UK Foreign Office declined to provide any advice to British travellers, referring the Guardian only to its general foreign travel advice page for the US, which contains no information on digital privacy at the border.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a US nonprofit which campaigns for digital civil rights, advises travellers: “Border agents cannot deny a US citizen admission to the country. However, if a foreign visitor declines, an agent may deny them entry.

The group’s digital privacy guide continues: “If a foreign visitor refuses a border agent’s demand to unlock their digital device, provide the device password, or provide social media information, and the agent responds by denying entry, the foreign visitor may have little legal recourse.”

Nate Wessler, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, explained: “A lot of the difficulties here come from the burden of proof. For US citizens, they have an absolute right to enter; for permanent residents, the burden is on the government to prove they have become inadmissable for entry.

But for visa holders, the burden is on the traveler to show that they are admissible to the US. That means there’s a risk that if someone is asked for a device and refuses, the agent may deem that refusal a failure to meet that burden of proof.”

Mitigation efforts may help limit the exposure of individual travellers. The EFF recommends travellers minimise the data they carry across the border, by not carrying non-essential devices, deleting sensitive information before travelling, and shifting some data to cloud services. Changing any passwords after they have been handed over, and securely resetting devices after they have been accessed and potentially compromised by CBP, can also prevent long-term data insecurity. Wessler adds: “The best protections will be practical ones rather than legal ones, and travellers should think about how much data and what devices they’re carrying with them.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... nied-entry

A complete tech and social detox before travelling to the US. A big ol' inconvenience for most (though I don't think a white person called John Smith is as likely to be singled out), extremely problematic for businesses and anyone with classified info or whatever.

It's like they're doing everything in their power to tank tourism.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Garth » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:49 pm

strawberry float that gooseberry fool.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Meep » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:58 pm

There is nothing stopping me using my password manager to change every password I have as soon as I cross the line, right? Seems kind of pointless.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Lex-Man » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:15 pm

Meep wrote:There is nothing stopping me using my password manager to change every password I have as soon as I cross the line, right? Seems kind of pointless.


I think they can take a image of your hard drive for review later, if they want.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by That » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:34 pm

Horrific policy, and will disproportionately impact businessmen & other high-end workers who might have some genuinely important, secret data on their laptops.

Presumably if you're just a tourist you get around this by not taking any smart devices with you on holiday to the States. Buy a spare dumbphone for a tenner if you need to text while you're there, use the hotel's internet cafe to check your emails, and so on.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by KK » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:25 am

My phone would be the one device I'd miss the most though, particularly in a foreign country. It comes in handy for, well, everything and can get you out of many a bind. Using it as a GPS on a car rental for example, or finding a local hotel if you're being spontaneous.

But if they want your social media passwords and financial details it's kind of irrelevant anyway. They can't be that thorough with everyone though so it's just a case of if your face and name fits.

It's just a monumental pain in the arse.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by KK » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:34 am

NBC News wrote:The National Security Council has presented President Donald Trump with options to respond to North Korea's nuclear program — including putting American nukes in South Korea or killing dictator Kim Jong-un, multiple top-ranking intelligence and military officials told NBC News.

Both scenarios are part of an accelerated review of North Korea policy prepared in advance of Trump's meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping this week.

The White House hopes the Chinese will do more to influence Pyongyang through diplomacy and enhanced sanctions. But if that fails, and North Korea continues its development of nuclear weapons, there are other options on the table that would significantly alter U.S. policy.

The first and most controversial course of action under consideration is placing U.S. nuclear weapons in South Korea. The U.S. withdrew all nuclear weapons from South Korea 25 years ago. Bringing back bombs — likely to Osan Air Base, less than 50 miles south of the capital of Seoul — would mark the first overseas nuclear deployment since the end of the Cold War, an unquestionably provocative move.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tru ... ea-n743571

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Return_of_the_STAR » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:39 am

KK wrote:
NBC News wrote:The National Security Council has presented President Donald Trump with options to respond to North Korea's nuclear program — including putting American nukes in South Korea or killing dictator Kim Jong-un, multiple top-ranking intelligence and military officials told NBC News.

Both scenarios are part of an accelerated review of North Korea policy prepared in advance of Trump's meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping this week.

The White House hopes the Chinese will do more to influence Pyongyang through diplomacy and enhanced sanctions. But if that fails, and North Korea continues its development of nuclear weapons, there are other options on the table that would significantly alter U.S. policy.

The first and most controversial course of action under consideration is placing U.S. nuclear weapons in South Korea. The U.S. withdrew all nuclear weapons from South Korea 25 years ago. Bringing back bombs — likely to Osan Air Base, less than 50 miles south of the capital of Seoul — would mark the first overseas nuclear deployment since the end of the Cold War, an unquestionably provocative move.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tru ... ea-n743571


I'm not sure I get why they need to place nukes in South Korea. If they need to use a nuke against North Korea they could fire it from anywhere they liked including he US mainland. Most likely would be from a sub or a B2.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by KK » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:28 pm

ABC News wrote:SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (KABC) -- At least four people and a gunman were injured in a shooting at an elementary school in San Bernardino, according to San Bernardino police.

The shooting, who San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan said was a possible murder-suicide, happened inside a classroom at North Park Elementary school in the 5300 block of North H Street.

San Bernardino County fire officials said on Twitter there were multiple gunshot victims at the campus. The school was on lockdown until further notice.

Four people, including two students and one teacher, were injured at the campus, according to Maria Garcia of the San Bernardino PD. The gunman was reported to be "down," and the threat has been contained, Garcia added.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-bernard ... ry-school/

I was just thinking the other day that it's been a while since the last one...

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Rightey » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:42 pm

Wow... Poor kids, I hope they are all ok in the end.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:53 am

Lots of stories about US and Russia heading towards wars, especially on the DM (predicable really) but I don't think the US are going to do anything else in Syria now unless they believe chemical weapons are used again. I don't see them striking Syria again unless it's in response to anything however people seem to think that this is a start of the US wanting to get involved.

I think Trumps intention is to go around the world and slap down all the bullies in the world by being the bigger bully unless he comes up against a bully nearly as big in Russia and China then he will just ignore them.

I also think Trump is more interested in N Korea. The meeting with china went by quietly last week I almost wonder if he's managed to get them on side.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by NickSCFC » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:04 am

Tineash wrote:The end game for the Kim family leadership is not open warfare or reunification, it's China arranging a coup and placing a friendly general in charge, to put the country on a path to stability (albeit without democracy).


I'd be quote happy with that solution, China has is a he'll of a lot better now compared to Mao's China (which is basically what N Korea).

At least in China people are allowed to LEAVE.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by KK » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:08 am

The last 3 days or so the Daily Mail have been going really heavy on WORLD WAR 3. Hyperbowl and all sensible reporting out the window.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Moggy » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:17 am

KK wrote:The last 3 days or so the Daily Mail have been going really heavy on WORLD WAR 3. Hyperbowl and all sensible reporting out the window.


At least it'll shut them up about Gibraltar.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Saint of Killers » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:31 am

I bet they're just itching to put their lot in with Putin.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Preezy » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:32 am

NickSCFC wrote:At least in China people are allowed to LEAVE.

North Koreans are allowed to leave, they just have to die painfully whilst doing it.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by KK » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:08 pm

If Trump ends up going after Syria and North Korea, I wonder how many countries the USA can go to war with at once before spreading themselves too thin. NK could be cataclysmic as well because nobody knows how many brainwashed people you're dealing with.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by DML » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:12 pm

The thing is, as much as we like to take the piss - North Korea are no joke. They have nuclear armaments and they do have a fair amount of weight they can push around.

I was involved in the Sony hack which was done by North Korea, and it showed that if they want to, they can certainly make major moves.

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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Gandalf » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:25 pm


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PostRe: The American Politics Thread
by Tafdolphin » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:27 pm

DML wrote:The thing is, as much as we like to take the piss - North Korea are no joke. They have nuclear armaments and they do have a fair amount of weight they can push around.

I was involved in the Sony hack which was done by North Korea, and it showed that if they want to, they can certainly make major moves.


Do they? Was this ever actually proven?

[EDIT: Yes, but possibly not fully weaponised: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11813699 ]

Also, last I heard on the news, the Sony hack looked less and less likely to be the result of N Korean hacking? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pict ... orth_Korea

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