US Politics - Trump cancels summit having to do with North Korea

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Moggy
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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Moggy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:24 am

Tineash wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Clinton was a significant shift to the right from Obama. It wouldn't have been more of the same at all. That's partly why she wasn't so popular with the Dems base support.


That's just false in every way. What policy proposal or campaign rhetoric was to the right of the Obama administration?


I don’t doubt that Clinton was to the right of Obama. Not a significant shift though (Obama is not really a lefty), she would have kept social rights, Obamacare etc.

I 100% understand why left leaning people in America would prefer Sanders to Clinton. If the election was a straight fight between Sanders and Clinton then I would be cheering Sanders on. But it still doesn’t change the fact that in 2016 refusing to vote for Clinton was strawberry floating stupid.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Grumpy David » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:44 am

Clinton was a continuation of Obama. She's maybe a tad more Hawkish on foreign policy, although that's up for debate as Obama dropped more drone missiles than Bush and embraced covert operations such as getting Bin Laden and cyber warfare on Iranian nuclear reactors (could be Israel in isolation responsible for Stuxnet). I think Clinton just alienates people more so than anyone could have expected. And I don't think it's as simply and easily explained by her being a woman either, being a Clinton probably didn't help either as she was seen as the personification of establishment.

No one thought Trump would win and nothing damaging sticks to him, probably because something newer that's equally damaging replaces it and the sheer quantity undermines each individually damaging bit of info.

Clinton definitely wouldn't have been a significant shift to the right. That's just what people tell themselves to feel better about not voting at all because of some misguided notion of "both as bad as each other".

I don't believe Bernie Sanders would have won against Trump either.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Moggy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:55 am

Grumpy David wrote:I don't believe Bernie Sanders would have won against Trump either.


I think he would have, not necessarily because America would have embraced him, but because he would have been offering something different while not being a Clinton. The baggage around Clinton hurt her campaign (unfairly in my opinion but it was there), Sanders wouldn’t have had that.

I think Trump would have lost a lot of votes as he scandals would have still been there, while Sanders was offering hope to the poorer sections of America. Kind of like Obama did in 2008, but with decades of evidence behind him to show that he meant what he said.

I think Sanders would have lost to most of the other Republican candidates though, America doesn’t like European style left wingers and would have freaked at the idea of socialism if it was up against anybody other than “grab ‘em by the pussy” Trump.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Preezy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:59 am

Trump is like when Mr Burns had so many diseases that it made him indestructible.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Hexx » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:09 am

Preezy wrote:Trump is like when Mr Burns had so many diseases


Impossible!

He's the fittest President ever!

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Moggy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:12 am

Preezy wrote:Trump is like when Mr Burns had so many diseases that it made him indestructible.


I always think he is like Mithradates, he keeps lots of little scandals flowing around himself and now thinks he is immune from them. Maybe he is, or maybe he will have to get a mate to stab him with a sword to escape from his enemies.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by BID0 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:28 am

Photek wrote:Clinton wasn't to the right of Obama at all, what nonsense, Bernie was just so far to the left that he made Obama and Clinton seem to the right. I also blame Bernie fans for this debacle, he also should have dropped out of the race and endorsed Clinton sooner like Clinton did for Obama.

Pretty sure Clinton held on for just as long against Obama than Bernie did against her, but that's part of her politics (one rule for her and a different one for everyone else). He even polled better against Trump than she did herself. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... vu/484214/

She even said on record she didn't want to drop out because historically people have been assassinated and implied this could happen to Obama and she could still win as a result of him being killed. http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-rfk-comment/

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Preezy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:32 am

She's a shady lady, no doubt about it.

Not like our brave, beautiful and handsome Donald :wub:

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Hexx » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:38 am

Preezy wrote:She's a shady lady, no doubt about it.

Not like our brave, beautiful and handsome Donald :wub:


I know you're joking, but I can't help something really really really horrible happens to you.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Preezy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:47 am

I was only joking about half of my post.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Moggy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:20 pm

Preezy wrote:I was only joking about half of my post.


He really is brave, beautiful and handsome. :wub:

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by captain red dog » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:28 pm

Tineash wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Clinton was a significant shift to the right from Obama. It wouldn't have been more of the same at all. That's partly why she wasn't so popular with the Dems base support.


That's just false in every way. What policy proposal or campaign rhetoric was to the right of the Obama administration?

I don't believe she would have been as strong as pushing universal healthcare, or at least a protection of ACA as she always seemed cool on it during the Obama administration. I also think she would have pursued a more interventionalist strategy on the world stage. Then I have issues with her support for the 1994 Clinton Crime Bill, I think she would have probably led to a greater escalation of the prison industrial complex. I also never got the impression she had the backbone Obama had when it came to gun control, she talks a good game but Obama seemed genuinely passionate about ending the carnage despite the opposition.

Maybe "significant" was the wrong word, but I genuinely believe she would be a step to the right from Obama.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Moggy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:31 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Tineash wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Clinton was a significant shift to the right from Obama. It wouldn't have been more of the same at all. That's partly why she wasn't so popular with the Dems base support.


That's just false in every way. What policy proposal or campaign rhetoric was to the right of the Obama administration?

I don't believe she would have been as strong as pushing universal healthcare, or at least a protection of ACA as she always seemed cool on it during the Obama administration. I also think she would have pursued a more interventionalist strategy on the world stage. Then I have issues with her support for the 1994 Clinton Crime Bill, I think she would have probably led to a greater escalation of the prison industrial complex. I also never got the impression she had the backbone Obama had when it came to gun control, she talks a good game but Obama seemed genuinely passionate about ending the carnage despite the opposition.

Maybe "significant" was the wrong word, but I genuinely believe she would be a step to the right from Obama.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_h ... an_of_1993

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by captain red dog » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:38 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Tineash wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Clinton was a significant shift to the right from Obama. It wouldn't have been more of the same at all. That's partly why she wasn't so popular with the Dems base support.


That's just false in every way. What policy proposal or campaign rhetoric was to the right of the Obama administration?

I don't believe she would have been as strong as pushing universal healthcare, or at least a protection of ACA as she always seemed cool on it during the Obama administration. I also think she would have pursued a more interventionalist strategy on the world stage. Then I have issues with her support for the 1994 Clinton Crime Bill, I think she would have probably led to a greater escalation of the prison industrial complex. I also never got the impression she had the backbone Obama had when it came to gun control, she talks a good game but Obama seemed genuinely passionate about ending the carnage despite the opposition.

Maybe "significant" was the wrong word, but I genuinely believe she would be a step to the right from Obama.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_h ... an_of_1993

Not sure what your point is, the Clinton's didn't get the job done, Obama did.

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Moggy
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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Moggy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:45 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Tineash wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Clinton was a significant shift to the right from Obama. It wouldn't have been more of the same at all. That's partly why she wasn't so popular with the Dems base support.


That's just false in every way. What policy proposal or campaign rhetoric was to the right of the Obama administration?

I don't believe she would have been as strong as pushing universal healthcare, or at least a protection of ACA as she always seemed cool on it during the Obama administration. I also think she would have pursued a more interventionalist strategy on the world stage. Then I have issues with her support for the 1994 Clinton Crime Bill, I think she would have probably led to a greater escalation of the prison industrial complex. I also never got the impression she had the backbone Obama had when it came to gun control, she talks a good game but Obama seemed genuinely passionate about ending the carnage despite the opposition.

Maybe "significant" was the wrong word, but I genuinely believe she would be a step to the right from Obama.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_h ... an_of_1993

Not sure what your point is, the Clinton's didn't get the job done, Obama did.


Your point was that you didn't think Clinton would push healthcare.

My point was that she already did. The Clinton’s might not have passed but that doesn’t mean Hillary wasn’t a strong supporter of healthcare.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by captain red dog » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:32 pm

OK, no issue with that, but I maintain I don't feel she would have pushed ACA or pushed for single payer with the same vigour as Obama.

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Tineash
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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Tineash » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:43 pm

captain red dog wrote:OK, no issue with that, but I maintain I don't feel she would have pushed ACA or pushed for single payer with the same vigour as Obama.



So basically, you're as thick as stale pudding.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Lex-Man » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:51 pm

There are loads of links on the internet about Clinton's health care plan. See wanted major reforms to the ACA to make it easier for low earners to get healthcare. She would have pushed hard for it. It was probably one of her best attributes IMO.

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Moggy
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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Moggy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:54 pm

captain red dog wrote:OK, no issue with that, but I maintain I don't feel she would have pushed ACA or pushed for single payer with the same vigour as Obama.


Well she wouldn’t have needed to, it would have been already there if she had replaced Obama. If the Republicans controlled Congress then I am pretty sure she’d have vetoed any attempts to repeal it.

As I said before, Clinton is the sort of politician that doesn’t really believe in anything, but she has an eye on legacy. She might have failed to get anything through, but her attention would have been on getting policies through that would cement her legacy. As a left (American left ;) ) wing politician, that would have been something like healthcare, gun control, fairer taxes etc.

I don’t think she is a particularly nice person and I don’t think she’d have been as good for ordinary Americans as Sanders, but she would have been better than Trump. Much much better.

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PostRe: US Politics - $10 million reward for info on Trump
by Harry Ola » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:12 pm

So as always, he's been lying.

twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/921007612317044736


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