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Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:10 pm
by Rax
A couple of observations:

Conference A is tougher than Conference B.
The Irish (and indeed the Welsh) teams have a tougher schedule by the virtue of the fact they must play tougher derbies.
The Champions Cup places continue to be a mess with teams being able to finish lower and qualify based on where theyre from.
When you have to play in SA will make a huge difference, you could go from a frozen snow covered pitch one week to playing in 30 degree heat the next.
The SA teams will also likely be strawberry floated come the end of the season with all the travel.
The playoffs could be a nightmare for travel. eg. The Cheetahs last regular season game is at home, then they play in Glasgow for the quarterfinals, then get a home semi final, then the final is in Cardiff. Its an unlikely scenario but its a gooseberry fool load of flying in a 4 week stretch if it does happen.

In my opinion the European leagues play a higher standard of rugby than Super Rugby do, the New Zealand teams and the Lions would do just fine in Europe but the rest of Super Rugby would struggle, so I don't understand how bringing in 2 teams what were deemed not good enough to compete in what could be classed as a lower league is a good move for the Pro 12. I understand its going to bring in more TV money but the big problem Super Rugby has is empty stadiums because you get zero away fans and its impossible to develop a rivalry with a team thousands of miles away. The Pro 12 already suffers from a milder version of this, adding in 2 teams based over 8000 miles away from the rest of the league wont solve this, it will just add to the empty stadiums problem.

Cheetahs fans getting to see Munster or Leinster come to town might sell tickets but will Connacht move the needle down there? What about when the Kings come to Edinburgh, Scottish fans can barely be arsed to watch Edinburgh play anyway, why would they bother to show up to see the worst team in South Africa? The Kings vs Treviso could have free entry and no-one would show up for strawberry floats sake.

I'm definitely intrigued by it as an idea, I love the Pro 12 but its an infuriating league to follow, you have some of the best teams in Europe but the standard is pulled down by the bottom feeders of European rugby. Adding 2 Super Rugby cast offs is unlikely to change that, one thing it will do is provide a comparison point for Europe vs Super Rugby which will be interesting but ultimately of little real value. I want to see the league succeed and as a sport I want to see rugby grow but I don't see this being the right way of doing it, for my money pushing into the larger European markets combined with a semi-pro D2 is a better use of resources.

I didn't agree with the Champions Cup shrinking and smaller teams being excluded from the Challenge Cup, I believe you need to give these teams something to shoot for. Having a proper league structure with German, Spanish & Belgian representative sides alongside some of the bigger Romanian and Georgian clubs in a second tier league with promotion and relegation to the Pro 12 would give these teams a path to top tier competition and do more to grow the game and light a fire under the Italian teams than adding a couple of unwanted southern hemisphere teams.

Of course this, like promotion and relegation in the 6 Nations, will never happen because Georgia, Romania, Germany etc don't bring big money to the table and no-one wants to risk getting relegated from Europes top table just because they have 1 down year. I guess until that mindset is changed we will continue to see those kinds of moves from the Pro 12, including a rumoured push into North America in the next 18-24 months, a place that just saw its own pro league fold without making a ripple. Weird but interesting times ahead for the "Celtic League".

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:51 pm
by Kanbei
I'm certainly going to give it a go. The top teams in the Pro12 are equal to anything in Europe, however the worst teams are frankly appalling.

There has been one change though Rax, Champions Cup places are no longer decided by country but by placings now. No more country protection! So this will be the last year of an Italian side in the Champions Cup till they get their act together.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:00 am
by Rax
Yeah I saw that, its a good move but its muddied then by the addition of the SA teams again. You could even have the situation where the Pro 14 Champion doesn't qualify for the Champions Cup, which would be a very odd situation. Apparently there will be talks between EPRC and SA Rugby to allow the SA teams be eligible, so that could sort out that. Then things would get really interesting, the Lions, Bulls etc would likely want a piece of the Champions Cup money so we could see the South Africans abandon Super Rugby altogether in favour of competing in European competitions.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:20 am
by Knoyleo
Ruck laws changed for 6 Nations because wittle Engwand didn't like being made to look daft by big meanies Italy.

Ruck

5. Law 16
A ruck commences when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler). At this point the offside lines are created. Players on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate. As soon as an opposition player arrives, no hands can be used.
This law will put an end to the no-ruck tactic employed by Italy in last year's Six Nations when they caught England by surprise in the first half of their encounter at Twickenham.
Rationale: To make the ruck simpler for players and referees.


In other "making it simpler" arrangements:

Tackler playing the ball

4. Law 15.4 (c)
The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then can only play from their own side of the tackle "gate".
Rationale: To make the tackle/ruck simpler for players and referees and more consistent with the rest of that law.


Anti BOD legislation.

Full list of changes http://www.sixnationsrugby.com/mobile/e ... 036R2a6.97

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:35 pm
by Kanbei
Rax wrote:Yeah I saw that, its a good move but its muddied then by the addition of the SA teams again. You could even have the situation where the Pro 14 Champion doesn't qualify for the Champions Cup, which would be a very odd situation. Apparently there will be talks between EPRC and SA Rugby to allow the SA teams be eligible, so that could sort out that. Then things would get really interesting, the Lions, Bulls etc would likely want a piece of the Champions Cup money so we could see the South Africans abandon Super Rugby altogether in favour of competing in European competitions.


Think the Pro14 is heading to an even bigger shakeup in the future. I already heard that one of the current Super Rugby teams wants to move when the SANZAAR contract expires in 2020. You add all 4 of them in plus the rumoured American and Canadian franchises and we are potentially looking at a 3 division structure in a few years time.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:21 pm
by Knoyleo
I saw some interesting speculation on Twitter that this could be the stay 2 of seeing regular rugby contests being organised by time zone rather than hemisphere, i.e. the break up of super rugby, and more of the European sides playing South African sides, some kind of pan American championship, and Japanese and Australasian sides competing against each other.

Obviously, you run into the issue of it being the height of summer for some sides whilst it's the middle of the season, but it could be a really interesting shake up, at the very least for international sides, who are used to playing through the off season.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:53 am
by Lotus
South Africa has been recommended to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup ahead of Ireland and France, the tournament's organising board has announced.

The World Rugby Council will now meet on 15 November in London to vote on the next host.

The board made its recommendation following detailed consideration of the host candidate evaluation report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41814037

Breakdown of the scores:
Image


Ireland last in all but one of the categories - ouch. Be good to see it in SA again though.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:35 pm
by bear
Balls. Securing the RWC would have been a good incentive for the Government to get their finger out of their arse and sort out the Galway ring road. At a glance the lack of sizeable venues seems to have been Ireland's biggest Achilles heel and it's hard to see that changing anytime soon. It's a tough sell to justify venues larger than 25,000 being built in the likes of Galway and Derry as they wouldn't be used often enough.


When does the 2027 bid process start? :P

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:22 pm
by Rax
That is a shame, the weird part about this is thats just what the independent committee is recommending. The actual vote isnt for another 2 weeks and thats done in secret so we could see it go elsewhere yet, even if that is incredibly unlikely. Need to get them stadiums upgraded and go again for 2027.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:43 pm
by Starbreaker
Poor Wales. That can't have been nice to watch :lol:

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:30 pm
by Kanbei
Pure sex from Ireland

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:33 pm
by Curls
It was an entertaining game but yet again. Wales lose to a Southern Hemisphere team. I tell myself that one dya i'll see a victory but for gods sake it never seems to work.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:51 pm
by Starbreaker
Great from Ireland, taking nothing away from them because they played really well but strawberry floating hell it's depressing to see how far Safrica have fallen in such a short space of time. Utterly toothless for all that possession.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:41 am
by Rax
Great confident display from Ireland, the result never looked in doubt after half time and they werent shy about looking to put the game away. That Stockdale try was magnificent.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:23 pm
by Knoyleo
France to host 2023 World Cup, beating South Africa who had the lead recommendation. Their third Weekend Cup since 1991.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41995220

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:03 pm
by Rax
Bit of a shame, it would have been amazing to see the world cup at home. I hope that we put in a bid for 2027 though, learn the lessons from this bid and make the next one even better.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:08 pm
by bear
I don't see any point in Ireland ever bidding again. If we had lost out to South Africa they could take the findings of the report assessing each bid seriously and work at addressing the shortcomings in the bid. Losing out to France shows that it's all about the bottom line and the only way Ireland will ever host a RWC is if the government is willing to put up an unreasonably large amount of money or if the IRFU find a sugardaddy willing to do the same.


Publishing the bid assessments has backfired badly on World Rugby. It was meant to make the process of awarding the tournament more transparent but they've made themselves look a right bunch of shysters by ignoring it completely. :lol:

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:34 pm
by Kanbei
Completely gutted that Ireland didn't get it. Obviously money is more important than fans. 3rd time in 10 world cups that France has hosted it :fp:

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:20 pm
by Tomous
Really enjoyed Wales v South Africa today. Glad we got one result from the Autumn, it was always going to be a difficult, transitional phase but we scored some great tries today, and while the defence and scrum had some serious problems it was a very entertaining game.

Re: Rugby Union Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 am
by still
Tomous wrote:Really enjoyed Wales v South Africa today. Glad we got one result from the Autumn, it was always going to be a difficult, transitional phase but we scored some great tries today, and while the defence and scrum had some serious problems it was a very entertaining game.


As I neutral I thoroughly enjoyed it too. It was always on the cards to be an interesting match. Have to say that I thought Wales got lucky but both sides are clearly somewhat off it at the moment.