[DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

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Should Scotland be an independent country?

YES (I am eligible to vote in the referendum)
30
16%
NO (I am eligible to vote in the referendum)
19
10%
YES (I will not be eligible)
30
16%
NO (I will not be eligible)
111
58%
 
Total votes: 190
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Rocsteady
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Rocsteady » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:28 am

:lol:

Yeah you're probably right.

Was an orange order march a week or two ago but passed without incident as far as I'm aware.
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OnlyShallow
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by OnlyShallow » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:29 am

There is a huge orange walk planned for Glasgow today. Whoever sanctioned that at city chambers needs their head examining. :fp:
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Prototype
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Prototype » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:32 am

[iup=3569637]Jay Adama[/iup] wrote:Hibs are pish


lol

[iup=3569637]Jay Adama[/iup] wrote: people coming in from the surrounding smaller towns


Are we going to have a problem, m8?
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:35 am

[iup=3569629]elite knight danbo[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3569626]Qikz[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3569622]elite knight danbo[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3569612]Return_of_the_STAR[/iup] wrote:He majority of younger scots ive spoken to or heard seemed to want independence because of the evil english government taking all their oil or because of things that happened sometimes 100s of yrs ago.


You speak to a lot of young Scottish people in Northampton, then?


You're on the internet. You can be friends or acquaintances with someone from different countries in this day and age.


My guess is that if they were friends or acquaintances rather than made-up pish, he wouldn't be so incredibly dismissive of an incredibly encouraging new section of young voters being engaged in politics for the first time.

Out of all the pish talk about federalization and whatever the hell this result means, the one thing that sounds pretty reasonable for everyone everywhere is that it would be an injustice to not let 16-and-ups get a vote in general elections from now on.


I dont agree with people under 18 having the vote. Generally they are not mature enough and well rounded. Some people still fall into this category well into their twenties. The only shining light is that most of these people wouldnt bother to vote.

I deal with and speak to a lot of 16 and 17 year old through my work in and out of schools. Some are incredibly mature but the majority just want to strawberry float about and I dont blame them because they are still kids. Most wouldnt have a clue about politics or have any general knowledge about current events. Again I dont blame them because they are not adults.
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Jay Adama
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Jay Adama » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:38 am

[iup=3569638]ianf[/iup] wrote::lol:

Yeah you're probably right.

Was an orange order march a week or two ago but passed without incident as far as I'm aware.

I think it's because there's no one in Edinburgh to really 'provoke' in the way there is in Glasgow. For most people it's just irritating and strawberry floats up the traffic for the day with road closures.

Slightly off topic, but I find Orange Marches to be a pretty unnecessary and provocative display. I don't care what religion you're a part of, just keep it to yourself and certainly don't provoke others by flaunting it.

[iup=3569639]OnlyShallow[/iup] wrote:There is a huge orange walk planned for Glasgow today. Whoever sanctioned that at city chambers needs their head examining. :fp:

Really? strawberry float me, that is going end in tears.

Did I say tears? I meant tear gas. :fp:

[iup=3569640]Prototype[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3569637]Jay Adama[/iup] wrote:people coming in from the surrounding smaller towns


Are we going to have a problem, m8?

Now that I think about it... why do you have NO SURRENDER tattooed on your butt cheeks? And why do I know that?
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Meep
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Meep » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:27 pm

Considering the amount of adults who have never bothered to vote in their lives, I would say simply having a desire to vote and taking the time to use it makes you considerably more qualified than a lot of those who are already allowed.
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elite knight danbo
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by elite knight danbo » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:31 pm

I'm a member of the Scottish Greens now. Through hardships to the strawberry floating stars, folks.
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Luboluke
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Luboluke » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:45 pm

I really like the Greens but their dismissal of nuclear power seems incredibly naive to me.
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:00 pm

[iup=3569655]Meep[/iup] wrote:Considering the amount of adults who have never bothered to vote in their lives, I would say simply having a desire to vote and taking the time to use it makes you considerably more qualified than a lot of those who are already allowed.


Yeah I agree. Lets give the vote to anyone that wants it regardless of age.
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elite knight danbo
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by elite knight danbo » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:23 pm

Why is 18 the sweet spot, then?

16 is old enough to bring life into this world, old enough to leave school, old enough to claim benefits, old enough to join the army, old enough to join the workforce, old enough to pay tax (even old enough to do all these things in order!) but not old enough to be represented politically?
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:36 pm

[iup=3569676]elite knight danbo[/iup] wrote:Why is 18 the sweet spot, then?

16 is old enough to bring life into this world, olop in hish to leave school, old enough to claim benefits, old enough to join the army, old enough to join the workforce, old enough to pay tax (even old enough to do all these things in order!) but not old enough to be represented politically?


Why is any age the correct age? No one can really say. Im just giving my opinion that it shouldn't be lower than 18. its just an opinion.

The ages of 16 and 17 in our country is a but muddled. Whilst you can claim benefits, its only certain ones if u r eligible because for example you cant live with your parents anymore. You can join the army but only with parental consent and not for combat. You can leave school but only for an apprenticeship. Otherwise u have to remain in education. Till u r 18.
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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Alvin Flummux » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:44 pm

[iup=3569676]elite knight danbo[/iup] wrote:16 is old enough to bring life into this world, old enough to leave school, old enough to claim benefits, old enough to join the army, old enough to join the workforce, old enough to pay tax (even old enough to do all these things in order!) but not old enough to be represented politically?


Teenagers with views on politics can have pretty extreme viewpoints. Age mellows and defines and sometimes reworks them, but at 16 and 17 they are so raw and hard line and sometimes misguided that I'm not sure that that age group is able to be trusted with the power of the vote.
Jupiter is in your sun sign this week, making it pretty crowded in there, what with Jupiter being the largest of the planets and all.
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elite knight danbo
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by elite knight danbo » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:52 pm

If it is desirable to eliminate "raw" / "hard line" viewpoints (even if they're only sometimes misguided, as you say yourself), why is age the criteria? I saw a lot of over-18s on George Square last night with some pretty raw opinions on things!

[iup=3569678]Return_of_the_STAR[/iup] wrote:The ages of 16 and 17 in our country is a but muddled. Whilst you can claim benefits, its only certain ones if u r eligible because for example you cant live with your parents anymore. You can join the army but only with parental consent and not for combat. You can leave school but only for an apprenticeship. Otherwise u have to remain in education. Till u r 18.


These are all still highly political and life-changing things no matter how many caveats you tack on. If you're old enough to receive training in shooting brown people overseas, you should probably get a little representation in who you should be shooting.
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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Alvin Flummux » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:07 pm

It is quite desirable that people who have a say, politically, not be scary extremists.

Turning 18 doesn't magically mellow us out, I know that it often takes years for sense to kick in. I just don't trust 16 and 17 year olds to have political views that don't, upon reflection years down the road, look like utter dogshit. Then again though, I know a lot of adults whose political views are completely abhorrent too...

I suppose I could support giving the vote to people that young if they could do away with FFTP and federalize the UK. Can they do that? Would they as a voting bloc have that ability, if they were given the vote?
Jupiter is in your sun sign this week, making it pretty crowded in there, what with Jupiter being the largest of the planets and all.
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Henke
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Henke » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:27 pm

[iup=3569678]Return_of_the_STAR[/iup] wrote:You can leave school but only for an apprenticeship. Otherwise u have to remain in education. Till u r 18.


Pretty sure I left school when I was 17 and I'm pretty sure that I could have walked after my Standard Grades were done.
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Qikz
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Qikz » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:30 pm

[iup=3569697]Henke[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3569678]Return_of_the_STAR[/iup] wrote:You can leave school but only for an apprenticeship. Otherwise u have to remain in education. Till u r 18.


Pretty sure I left school when I was 17 and I'm pretty sure that I could have walked after my Standard Grades were done.


They've changed it now. It's compulsary to stay on for sixth form education.
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Johnny Ryall
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Johnny Ryall » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:31 pm

Not in Scotland. Leaving age is 16.
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elite knight danbo
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by elite knight danbo » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:37 pm

I left school at 17 too with no certainty of uni placement. Didn't bring it up, assumed it was a different setup in England. :s

[iup=3569689]Alvin Flummux[/iup] wrote:I suppose I could support giving the vote to people that young if they could do away with FFTP and federalize the UK. Can they do that? Would they as a voting bloc have that ability, if they were given the vote?


I'd be wary of supporting a particular demographic based on the results you get, because from there it'd be a short jump to me going after pensioners with a light machinegun of some description (or, more pragmatically, going after their bus passes). I believe you'll get a fair and pragmatic debate out of the young voters that is bereft of influence by traditional media, what that results in would be up to them.
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Henke
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Henke » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:38 pm

[iup=3569701]Johnny Ryall[/iup] wrote:Not in Scotland. Leaving age is 16.


Cool. I wasn't sure if it had changed in the ten years since I left school. :shifty:
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Irene Demova
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!
by Irene Demova » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:43 pm

16 year olds should absolutely be allowed to vote, young people constantly get strawberry floated on things like university because the % of them that can actually vote against things such as parties wanting to raise fees is tiny. (Young here means 21 and under)

Take the last rise in uni fees, the people who were 18 at the time weren't affected by the tories deciding to raise the fees (and the libs going along with it) but those who were 16 at the election are paying out of their arses.

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