Sea of Thieves (XB/PC/Game Pass/PS5) - Over 40m players. Coming to PS5 on 30th April. 2024 details.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240939788?t=04h29m27s

Personally I'm convinced the lack of a tutorial and the basic nature of everything outside of sailing is because Rare just haven't got round to creating it yet.

The game feels barely half finished. The talk coming from Rare (encouraging a more friendly online experience, attracting new people to online play etc) simply doesn't match the experience people will get when they start playing it.

The Watching Artist wrote:https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240939788?t=04h29m27s

Nabbed a months Game Pass off CDKeys for about £1.30-odd, nabbed a 2nd months code just to see if it would stack but doesn't so I have a spare months code for anyone that hasn't subbed to it or used a trial (New members only)

Downloading now so I can give it a try tonight.

I'd like to see factions in the game - different outposts belong to different factions. If you're in the same faction as a random group you're not instantly fighting each other. You could have a symbol on the ship/sail as a faction indicator. A few mini-games in the outposts would be cool too.

You could add depth to the fetch quests this way too - certain factions pay more for specific supplies. Do you risk entering enemy waters for more gold, or stay safer and get less?

Lagamorph wrote:

Hime wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:I think I'm done with this game, it just isn't for me. I've tried and I've tried but it just isn't clicking at all.

There's the very early beginnings of a good game here somewhere, but it's buried beneath poor design like all your stuff vanishing/resetting between play sessions (With no warning that this will happen), PVP bullshit that actively encourages spawn camping and creating a bad time for players, the servers simply not being up to the job of actually running the game despite the fact it's always online and the worst offence of all being that the game does nothing to teach you anything and being utterly unfriendly to newcomers in general. No tutorials, no explanation of how the mechanics work it just dumps you into the game with the expectation that you've already spent a few hours before you even pick up the game either watching tutorial videos or watching other people play it first. Ontop of that there's very little actually here. The game seems to be a huge example of all style and very little substance.
Honestly, the final release feels more like what I'd expect from the very first beta version of a game.

Maybe in a year or so after a huge amount of content patches there'll be something here, but the community will probably have long since moved on by then.
All I can say is that I'm glad this was on Gamepass. If I'd spent £50 on this then god I would feel ripped off.

So it looks like it's everything I thought it would be after watching videos of the beta. I actually think the 'organic discovery' is a smart design choice in the wake of Dark Souls, BoTW, Monster Hunter, etc. It sounds like it's moved even further in the lack of direction than these games to the point that people have no idea what their goals for playing are. I hope those who enjoy exploration over hand holding enjoy it but I need a bit more of a guided experience.

Thing is it's not 'hand holding' that it's lacking. I wouldn't call some basic introductions to controls and mechanics 'hand holding'. I'm not asking for waypoint markers telling you where to go, once I figured out how to find islands and get there I was perfectly happy with the system of finding your way around. The problem is that the game never told me how to find my way around, or much of anything else really.
It never told me how to use the map, it never told me how to make my ship go, it never told me I have to raise my anchor, then unfurl my sail, then angle my sail before I could really get moving.
It never told me that for the Skeleton missions you need to keep beating waves of generic skeletons in a super basic horde game until the named skeleton shows up.
It never told me that if I quit the game then all the cargo I've picked up will vanish and my ships stores will reset to default.
Telling me those things absolutely isn't hand holding, it's the game explaining its own mechanics for the first time.

I agree with you man, I don't understand why that stuff is considered hand holding but from reading a few opinions it might be that they simply haven't gotten round to building it into the game or rather than showing you a brief summary of things to do in the game it keeps it a mystery as it might seem a bit basic if everything was laid out. Again, I think this is a good design decision. It gives it more of a Destiny 1 overworld feeling when it seemed like exploration could open up all sorts of possibilities. Hopefully it won't be the same in that there are only a few basic tasks to do, obviously the pvp adds a different element to fetch quests but I can see it being ripe for trolling if you're not in a big crew with all the best loot. I also don't understand how opening a map every few seconds for is vastly to a waypoint marker, especially when you could just not use waypoints in any game if you wanted to but having a choice isn't a bad thing.

twitter.com/dark1x/status/976380866443251712

Exactly why my best mate likes this, doesn’t play multi player but this is nothing like Destiny or MMO levelling etc.

As Ryan McCaffrey from IGN coined it, it’s Destiny for dads. It's an MMO for people who are time poor essentially.

1: This sounds an awful lot like my experience in Elite Dangerous. Jump in, enter the world, game tells you nothing and leaves everything unexplained. Problem is, with ED I had 4 years worth of wikis to rely on. Here, not so much.

2: Photek, why on earth are you so protective of this? People are obviously having issues with it beyond dodgy servers.

Hime wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:

Hime wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:I think I'm done with this game, it just isn't for me. I've tried and I've tried but it just isn't clicking at all.

There's the very early beginnings of a good game here somewhere, but it's buried beneath poor design like all your stuff vanishing/resetting between play sessions (With no warning that this will happen), PVP bullshit that actively encourages spawn camping and creating a bad time for players, the servers simply not being up to the job of actually running the game despite the fact it's always online and the worst offence of all being that the game does nothing to teach you anything and being utterly unfriendly to newcomers in general. No tutorials, no explanation of how the mechanics work it just dumps you into the game with the expectation that you've already spent a few hours before you even pick up the game either watching tutorial videos or watching other people play it first. Ontop of that there's very little actually here. The game seems to be a huge example of all style and very little substance.
Honestly, the final release feels more like what I'd expect from the very first beta version of a game.

Maybe in a year or so after a huge amount of content patches there'll be something here, but the community will probably have long since moved on by then.
All I can say is that I'm glad this was on Gamepass. If I'd spent £50 on this then god I would feel ripped off.

So it looks like it's everything I thought it would be after watching videos of the beta. I actually think the 'organic discovery' is a smart design choice in the wake of Dark Souls, BoTW, Monster Hunter, etc. It sounds like it's moved even further in the lack of direction than these games to the point that people have no idea what their goals for playing are. I hope those who enjoy exploration over hand holding enjoy it but I need a bit more of a guided experience.

Thing is it's not 'hand holding' that it's lacking. I wouldn't call some basic introductions to controls and mechanics 'hand holding'. I'm not asking for waypoint markers telling you where to go, once I figured out how to find islands and get there I was perfectly happy with the system of finding your way around. The problem is that the game never told me how to find my way around, or much of anything else really.
It never told me how to use the map, it never told me how to make my ship go, it never told me I have to raise my anchor, then unfurl my sail, then angle my sail before I could really get moving.
It never told me that for the Skeleton missions you need to keep beating waves of generic skeletons in a super basic horde game until the named skeleton shows up.
It never told me that if I quit the game then all the cargo I've picked up will vanish and my ships stores will reset to default.
Telling me those things absolutely isn't hand holding, it's the game explaining its own mechanics for the first time.

I agree with you man, I don't understand why that stuff is considered hand holding but from reading a few opinions it might be that they simply haven't gotten round to building it into the game or rather than showing you a brief summary of things to do in the game it keeps it a mystery as it might seem a bit basic if everything was laid out. Again, I think this is a good design decision. It gives it more of a Destiny 1 overworld feeling when it seemed like exploration could open up all sorts of possibilities. Hopefully it won't be the same in that there are only a few basic tasks to do, obviously the pvp adds a different element to fetch quests but I can see it being ripe for trolling if you're not in a big crew with all the best loot. I also don't understand how opening a map every few seconds for is vastly to a waypoint marker, especially when you could just not use waypoints in any game if you wanted to but having a choice isn't a bad thing.

Having watched all their videos and listened to 12 hour long podcasts, it's not that they 'haven't got round' to making a tutorial, it's a design decision that was taken after extensive play testing and a year long alpha. It's not a decision everyone is liking but it's not due to not putting it in cos of time constraints. They realised in the Alpha players worked it out, life finds a way.

Also, waypoints would ruin the feel of this game, there's no icons for anything and although it has a Rare 'look' everything is solid and having a waypoint would take you out the experience somewhat. I mean the only 'waypoint' in the game is a pirate fort and that's made out of clouds.

If you want waypoints and everything explained to you, play Destiny 2. The mystery and exploring is the aim of the game here. The things you do are functionary to an extent but its the journey you took to get there that matters. It doesn't hold your hand and rewards curiosity. Personally I love that type of approach and it harkens back to the older games in some ways.

Tafdolphin wrote:
2: Photek, why on earth are you so protective of this? People are obviously having issues with it beyond dodgy servers.

Microsoft

I'm looking forward to having a try tonight, it is cross-play too isn't it? I'd be happy to join some GR folk every now and again and if the game does happen to tickle my fancy I'll nab a 3 month game pass off CDKeys for 18 bullet.

What sort of performance am I looking at with my 1060 6GB and i5? Recommended cards on the games page say 600 series cards.

Tafdolphin wrote:1: This sounds an awful lot like my experience in Elite Dangerous. Jump in, enter the world, game tells you nothing and leaves everything unexplained. Problem is, with ED I had 4 years worth of wikis to rely on. Here, not so much.

2: Photek, why on earth are you so protective of this? People are obviously having issues with it beyond dodgy servers.

1 its nowhere NEAR the complexity of Elite Dangerous, I had to watch several tutorials of that and it comes with several in the game itself.

2 I'm a fan of the game and have played it more than anyone else here so sorry if im expressing my opinion on a game, in a forum, in its thread.

KjGarly wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:
2: Photek, why on earth are you so protective of this? People are obviously having issues with it beyond dodgy servers.

Microsoft

I mean, I assumed but it's just...odd here. I understand people becoming protective of brands they're attached to, you can strawberry float off with strawberry floating Witcher hate for example, but this is a new property. I therefore assume that yes, his aggressiveness comes from the fact it's marginally connected to Microsoft. Which I do not get at all. It's like someone getting bumpain over the recent Facebook controversy.

Photek wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:
2: Photek, why on earth are you so protective of this? People are obviously having issues with it beyond dodgy servers.

1 its nowhere NEAR the complexity of Elite Dangerous, I had to watch several tutorials of that and it comes with several in the game itself.

Oh true. But it's obviously not working for some folks. I'm pretty sure they'll capitulate, like ED did, and add some tutorials post-launch.

(Also, telling people they're playing it wrong isn't expressing an opinion, it's denigrating those held by others)

It's nothing to do with MS and most of what I've posted is just information about how and why design decisions were made.

EDIT: I got exasperated at Laga tbh, I mean c’mon tho wanting to be told to raise an anchor?

Tafdolphin wrote:1: This sounds an awful lot like my experience in Elite Dangerous. Jump in, enter the world, game tells you nothing and leaves everything unexplained. Problem is, with ED I had 4 years worth of wikis to rely on. Here, not so much.

Elite Dangerous at least has some training missions to help you get to grips with the basic controls. This doesn't even have that.

I think it's an age thing, its the only thing I can think of. People who played Monkey Island games would probably get on better with this, as odd as that sounds.

Lagamorph wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:1: This sounds an awful lot like my experience in Elite Dangerous. Jump in, enter the world, game tells you nothing and leaves everything unexplained. Problem is, with ED I had 4 years worth of wikis to rely on. Here, not so much.

Elite Dangerous at least has some training missions to help you get to grips with the basic controls. This doesn't even have that.

ED added their tutorials after launch because the reaction from most people was exactly like this.

Photek wrote:EDIT: I got exasperated at Laga tbh, I mean c’mon tho wanting to be told to raise an anchor?

That's some good opinion expressing there.

I managed to get in just over an hour and a half last night and I quite enjoyed it.

I will agree that it does need a little more sign-posting at the very beginning. I spent too long feeling lost and it was a bit discouraging. However, once I figured out how to get underway, plan a voyage and set sail it definitely picked up.

Took on three trading voyages to deliver Chickens, not realising I had to go and find the Chickens, so I did end up a bit aimless as there were none on my starting island. Ended up sailing to the next outpost island where I was able to pick up a combat Voyage to take out a Skeleton Crew on another island. Managed to make my way there quite easily, found the crew and took them out to get the Captain's Skull. I also found Chickens so I was able to grab a few, and a Treasure Chest. On my way back to turn them in I stopped at a tiny Island after seeing a glint of light. Found a message in a bottle and another Skeleton Captain's Skull. So in the end I was able to turn in quite a few quests.

One thing that did annoy me though, was having to go back to my ship after every delivery to pick up the next one. I can understand for the Chickens and Treasure Chest, which were in cages and would perhaps have been difficult to carry more than once, but the Skulls could easily have a bag or something to carry them.

So I am enjoying it, but I definitely feel it needs some QoL improvements to make it great.

Looking forward to some larger crew missions as well.

Cheeky Devlin wrote:I managed to get in just over an hour and a half last night and I quite enjoyed it.

I will agree that it does need a little more sign-posting at the very beginning. I spent too long feeling lost and it was a bit discouraging. However, once I figured out how to get underway, plan a voyage and set sail it definitely picked up.

Took on three trading voyages to deliver Chickens, not realising I had to go and find the Chickens, so I did end up a bit aimless as there were none on my starting island. Ended up sailing to the next outpost island where I was able to pick up a combat Voyage to take out a Skeleton Crew on another island. Managed to make my way there quite easily, found the crew and took them out to get the Captain's Skull. I also found Chickens so I was able to grab a few, and a Treasure Chest. On my way back to turn them in I stopped at a tiny Island after seeing a glint of light. Found a message in a bottle and another Skeleton Captain's Skull. So in the end I was able to turn in quite a few quests.

One thing that did annoy me though, was having to go back to my ship after every delivery to pick up the next one. I can understand for the Chickens and Treasure Chest, which were in cages and would perhaps have been difficult to carry more than once, but the Skulls could easily have a bag or something to carry them.

So I am enjoying it, but I definitely feel it needs some QoL improvements to make it great.

Looking forward to some larger crew missions as well.

Yeah it can be quite annoying ESPECIALLY playing alone to bring everything ashore one by one. Particularly the skulls as you can hold them in one hand. How did you find the skellie boss guys? found them quite a handful in a duo lastnight. Glad you didn't get harassed by others, we did but as I said with a bit of maneuvering and sail 'tilting' they gave up.

Where did you get cages for the chickens? From trader cos I couldn't get any when I played (could be server)

Photek wrote:

Cheeky Devlin wrote:I managed to get in just over an hour and a half last night and I quite enjoyed it.

I will agree that it does need a little more sign-posting at the very beginning. I spent too long feeling lost and it was a bit discouraging. However, once I figured out how to get underway, plan a voyage and set sail it definitely picked up.

Took on three trading voyages to deliver Chickens, not realising I had to go and find the Chickens, so I did end up a bit aimless as there were none on my starting island. Ended up sailing to the next outpost island where I was able to pick up a combat Voyage to take out a Skeleton Crew on another island. Managed to make my way there quite easily, found the crew and took them out to get the Captain's Skull. I also found Chickens so I was able to grab a few, and a Treasure Chest. On my way back to turn them in I stopped at a tiny Island after seeing a glint of light. Found a message in a bottle and another Skeleton Captain's Skull. So in the end I was able to turn in quite a few quests.

One thing that did annoy me though, was having to go back to my ship after every delivery to pick up the next one. I can understand for the Chickens and Treasure Chest, which were in cages and would perhaps have been difficult to carry more than once, but the Skulls could easily have a bag or something to carry them.

So I am enjoying it, but I definitely feel it needs some QoL improvements to make it great.

Looking forward to some larger crew missions as well.

Yeah it can be quite annoying ESPECIALLY playing alone to bring everything ashore one by one. Particularly the skulls as you can hold them in one hand. How did you find the skellie boss guys? found them quite a handful in a duo lastnight. Glad you didn't get harassed by others, we did but as I said with a bit of maneuvering and sail 'tilting' they gave up.

Where did you get cages for the chickens? From trader cos I couldn't get any when I played (could be server)

Skellie boss was fine. Minions went down in two-three swipes and I just kited the boss while getting in the odd swipe and shot with the pistol.

I didn't get harassed but I did board a galleon with another couple of players on it. The ferry is an interesting location.

Yeah the trader gave me the cages. I expect you can find them on islands as well as I came across (kennethwilliams.jpg) a pig cage or two while exploring.

Photek wrote:EDIT: I got exasperated at Laga tbh, I mean c’mon tho wanting to be told to raise an anchor?

Yeah I mean everyone should know how to sail a boat. Everyone should just know that they need to walk around the ship and right up to every single little thing just incase there's a button prompt that pops up.

I keep saying I'm not asking for constant huge popups on the screen all the time, all I want is some initial tooltips to get you started. I don't see how that's remotely unreasonable?

You keep saying "I'm just saying this is why they made that design decision". Ok, I get why. That doesn't mean it's a good design decision for newcomers though. Not everyone playing this is going to have put a bunch of time into the Alpha and Beta. Casual players, the ones who most need these kind of tooltips, will almost certainly not have played the betas. Or quite possibly did play them, were completely put off by having no idea what to do, and so didn't purchase the final product.

I'm not sure why you're comparing it to Monkey Island of all things. There wasn't exactly anything like this in that game.


If you want to play a game about being a pirate, Assassins Creed IV is a far better option than Sea of Thieves as it stands right now.