Self-Service Refunds for Xbox Live / Microsoft Store (14 day refund, <2 hours played)

Trying a physical game before you commit to own it forever is possible with rentals. That's why it's borderline ok for new purchases to be irreversible in shops.

Digital games ask you to stump up the fee for unlimited perpetual access with no option to try them out first, so you need to be able to let someone change their mind.

Saying to me that I can't have my money back (that I paid to have unlimited hours of access, for life) after just 120 minutes just because:
1. The credits rolled in that time
2. I've decided I don't want any access to it at all
and
3. You made it impossible for me to make an informed purchase in the first place?

THAT's the stupid mentality here.

You don't want people to abuse your refund policies and reverse their purchases all the time? Offer some way to rent the product and remove the refund option.

Or, you know, make a game that people actually WANT to own, given that's what you're supposed to be selling.

Great, customer-orientated approach. Well done MS.

Next step: ability to sell digital games.

jiggles wrote:Time played should have absolutely nothing to do with refund systems. You buy a game to have it forever, not just until the credits roll. If you decide within 2 weeks that you don't want it anymore, you should be able to change your mind, regardless of how far you got.

Is this a joke post?

OrangeRakoon wrote:
jiggles wrote:Time played should have absolutely nothing to do with refund systems. You buy a game to have it forever, not just until the credits roll. If you decide within 2 weeks that you don't want it anymore, you should be able to change your mind, regardless of how far you got.

Is this a joke post?

The law is on Microsoft's side. In fact with this new system, MS are actually being far more generous than the law.

If you supply downloads or streaming services, you must:

get the customer to confirm before they download or stream content that they are aware they’ll lose their 14 day right to cancel

https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance- ... ne-selling

MS don't have to offer refunds (unless things are faulty obviously) and so should be applauded for this, even if they are restricting the refunds based on time played.

jiggles wrote:
more heat than light wrote:which is a little bit crap to be fair

Why understate this so hard? It's a complete flaming wreckage.

True. It's got a little bit better but it's still far from acceptable. It's easily the biggest weak point with Microsoft's whole strategy with Windows 10 and unless they sort it out quickly this rumoured Windows 10 Cloud Edition is going to be a disaster.

Yeah sure but jiggles is suggesting you should be entitled to get a full refund on a game you've played for 50 hours over 2 months? Which is obviously silly.

OrangeRakoon wrote:Yeah sure but jiggles is suggesting you should be entitled to get a full refund on a game you've played for 50 hours over 2 months? Which is obviously silly.

Was that a reply to me? I was on your side of that argument.

I miss the days of the Game 10 day return policy though. They were the glory days of gaming. :lol:

Moggy wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:Yeah sure but jiggles is suggesting you should be entitled to get a full refund on a game you've played for 50 hours over 2 months? Which is obviously silly.

Was that a reply to me? I was on your side of that argument.

I miss the days of the Game 10 day return policy though. They were the glory days of gaming.

Definitely, GAMEs ~~subscription free rental service~~ 10-day refund period got me through some skint times.

:lol:

OrangeRakoon wrote:Yeah sure but jiggles is suggesting you should be entitled to get a full refund on a game you've played for 50 hours over 2 months? Which is obviously silly.

Of course I'm not. Time played and time since purchase are two different things. 2 weeks is a long enough cooling-off period. The price you pay for the game isn't the cost to "experience" it, or see everything it has to offer, it's the cost to own it forever. If you're the kind of person who plays something once and then never goes back to something, ownership (or, to be more accurate, a perpetual license to use) isn't the right product for you.

You can listen to an entire album before you commit to owning it.
You can read an entire book before you commit to owning it.
You can watch an entire film before you commit to owning it.

The only reason why having no refunds offered on digital-only games stings so bad is because you have to make the purchases on blind faith. If you had the option to rent them, buying the thing outright isn't the only way to know if you actually would like to own it.

The cards are overwhelmingly stacked against the consumer when it comes to digital game purchases. Offering a 14 day refund window with under two hours played is better than not having it, for sure, but it's only a step in the right direction towards the wrong solution.

To sum up:
IF you're asking the person to make the commitment to own something on faith:
- You need to offer refunds for a cooling-off period so they can change their mind.
- A purchase to own IS NOT a payment to "play through just one time". Someone who saw your end credits didn't "get what they paid for"
- A refund system IS inherently open to abuse by people, deal with it

The ideal solution here is to offer a rental at something like 20% purchase cost a week, which is discounted from an eventual purchase (so if you rent for 5 weeks, you just own it). And don't offer refunds. On anything. Ever.

People who just want to play through games once can embrace digital, nobody can complain about realising after the fact that they don't want to own something, and nobody can abuse the system for free games. It would even drive piracy down if people can actually pay to try a game before paying full price to own it.

more heat than light wrote:*goes to check games that can be clocked in two hours*

I hope they remove achievements and gamerscore when they issue the refunds.

Don't disagree there, a rental system should exist for digital games like it already does for films etc. And I think it already does in a limited way with services like Playstation Now?

I /thought/ you were saying that you should be able to get full refund on a game regardless of how much you've played, which is a silly idea.

7256930752

That's not a bad idea actually. The closest we have at the moment is EA access.

Zellery wrote:
Mafro wrote:Isn't this just what Steam does?

It's actually better than Steam's version because it's an automated refund, as opposed to having to wait for someone at Valve to look over your request and decide whether they're going to give it you or not.

I just go with the "my disability makes the game impossible to play" approach, they always give a refund then.

Ironhide wrote:
Zellery wrote:
Mafro wrote:Isn't this just what Steam does?

It's actually better than Steam's version because it's an automated refund, as opposed to having to wait for someone at Valve to look over your request and decide whether they're going to give it you or not.

I just go with the "my disability makes the game impossible to play" approach, they always give a refund then.

I bought INSIDE on steam the other week, asked for a refund and said I already had a key, didn't realise and purchased it off the store. They gave me a refund within hours.

Hime wrote:That's not a bad idea actually. The closest we have at the moment is EA access.

PlayStation Now is a game streaming Service, not the same at all, plus its crazy expensive.

Gamepass is launching on X1 soon, EA access style but across wider array of games.

7256930752

Photek wrote:
Hime wrote:That's not a bad idea actually. The closest we have at the moment is EA access.

PlayStation Now is a game streaming Service, not the same at all, plus its crazy expensive.

Gamepass is launching on X1 soon, EA access style but across wider array of games.

I was talking about the 10 hour trials which is effectively try before you buy.

I can't ever hear self-service without thinking of this:

9:14 in.

I missed videogamer. Well, i know its still around but haven't been there for ages.

Self-Service Refunds for Xbox Live / Microsoft Store (14 day refund, <2 hours played)

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