Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by jiggles » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:37 am

I feel a little like the goalposts are being moved to maintain outrage at loot boxes, tbh. Where people were arguing that you'd be pushed towards paying to get through the game, and that has turned out to not be the case at all, the upset is now that you can pay to skip hours of grindy multiplayer stuff, after the (long, btw) game has finished. Just to see a bonus cutscene. That you could watch on YouTube.

I mean, if that's the kind of thing you get mad about, enjoy yourself.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Saint of Killers » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:40 am

They should have just based the game around Brûz the Chopper.



I mean if you're gonna put your own spin on the source material then you may as well go the whole hog.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Lastpostamorph » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:42 am

The grindy multiplayer stuff is there purely to sell lootboxes though. It's not there because it's enjoyable, it's not there because anybody asked for it, it's not there because it was popular in the first game. It's there purely to take advantage of people who want to actually get all of what they've paid for by making them feel that they need to spend additional money if they don't have an additional 50 hours to spend doing the same thing over and over and over again.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Saint of Killers » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:47 am

jiggles wrote:I feel a little like the goalposts are being moved to maintain outrage at loot boxes, tbh. Where people were arguing that you'd be pushed towards paying to get through the game, and that has turned out to not be the case at all, the upset is now that you can pay to skip hours of grindy multiplayer stuff, after the (long, btw) game has finished. Just to see a bonus cutscene. That you could watch on YouTube.

I mean, if that's the kind of thing you get mad about, enjoy yourself.


You're right that the complaints aren't the same but in essence they're accomplishing what many feared lootboxes were designed for; extending the game and then offering a payable solution. In a full price game.

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S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:48 am

jiggles wrote:I feel a little like the goalposts are being moved to maintain outrage at loot boxes, tbh. Where people were arguing that you'd be pushed towards paying to get through the game, and that has turned out to not be the case at all, the upset is now that you can pay to skip hours of grindy multiplayer stuff, after the (long, btw) game has finished. Just to see a bonus cutscene. That you could watch on YouTube.

I mean, if that's the kind of thing you get mad about, enjoy yourself.


The goalposts arent being shifted, WB are just adding another set of goalposts to take shots at. This is still a full priced AAA game that has a F2P microtransaction economy, and is now its revelaed as a F2P economy that exists solely to sell loot boxes to circumvent a grind that is in itself as long as your average open world game unless you pay to skip it to see the "true ending". People arent just mad that the true ending is hidden behind microtransactions, theyre mad that a promising sequel has had a completely unnecessary marketplace tacked on to it, had its runtime extended by about 4 times the actual length of the game just to add in "endgame content" that literally only exists to sell loot boxes so that you can skip it. Its one of the scummiest Publisher moves ive seen in this gen.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Saint of Killers » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:57 am

Oh and for me it isn't the lootboxes that put me off. It's the fact that it's just another cookie cutter open world action game which doesn't offer anything new. It's why I'll most likely be passing on the new AC as well. I mean, if I played it on launch and didn't lose the will to complete it I may come away thinking it was an okay game, but the fact is I can't even be arsed to rent it. I'd much rather give something else a chance. (Like Battle Chasers: Night War.)

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S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Photek » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:42 am

Loot box stuff just never bothers me. It had zero impact in my games of Halo 5 and Gears 4. Halo 5 in particular, I was opening up loot every 2 mp matches. It looks like Gears 4 is the same. Both have free DLC as a result too. I think Gears has 24 maps or something, Halo is stuffed full of maps, modes and forge malarky.

I'll most likely get AC over this though.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Trelliz » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:58 am

be prepared to buy the XP boosts from the store while you're playing the campaign or face a 40-50 hour grind.


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Lootboxes don't affect gameplay, they're purely optional and designed to give players choice, we've balanced the game so they're completely optional.

jiggles wrote:I feel a little like the goalposts are being moved to maintain outrage at loot boxes, tbh.


Good - publishers rely on people not caring about stuff and silence to push at least tacit acceptance of lootboxes, and now their prevalence in 2017 is the result. There have been some u-turns and backpedalling but not enough, certainly not enough to get me interested in this again.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Saint of Killers » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:02 pm

'Conspiracy theories'? Being aware of their purpose but buying a game anyway is one thing (personally I think it's a-okay), but trusting publishers won't have forced the devs hand to exploit that gooseberry fool so they get more lootbox purchases? :slol:

inb4 lol j/k lol salt lol calm down.

| (•_•)| S: This is the best date I've been on since my last date. PB: This is not a date.
S: Neither was the last one. It was a robbery. M: Really? S: Yeah. She stole my heart. And my crown. (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Harry Bizzle » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:26 pm

Brerlappin wrote: theyre mad that a promising sequel has had a completely unnecessary marketplace tacked on to it.


Completely unnecessary from the player's perspective, maybe, but not from that of the publisher. Single player AAA development is getting riskier all the time. Head of NPD came out and said it himself not long ago:

“The top-selling games in the console market at the moment are primarily service based games that promise significant, or even unlimited, hours of gameplay,” Piscatella explained in a note to GamesBeat. “Single-player, non-service based games have to be nearly perfect in execution not only with the game itself, but also in the marketing and promotion around the game, to get to the top of the charts. It is a very difficult market for the $60 single-player game to hit the volumes in a launch month that service based games can reach, even if they have been in the market for some time.”



AAA single player game development is risky and morons buy microtransactions. It makes perfect sense.

It's a shame they're not purely cosmetic, or whatever, but if the main game is fun, I'm not going to let an optional grind to see a video I'll watch on YouTube put me off.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by jawafour » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:47 pm

Harry Bizzle wrote:Completely unnecessary from the player's perspective, maybe, but not from that of the publisher. Single player AAA development is getting riskier all the time. ...It makes perfect sense.

That's quite an unusual perspective to take, Harry... perhaps publishers should take a step back and assesss whether these loot box systems are actually a good thing? Are they really unable to sell a product and make a profit without having loot boxes? I struggle to think of any other media goods or services where it necessary for the manufacturer to involve gambling in the sale of their products... well, outside of actual gambling, obvs.

I'm not denying that, underneath the furore about loot boxes and DLC, Shadow of War looks pretty good. I feel that Warner only has itself to blame for that noise, though - it feels a little rum to suggest that the players should suck it up.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Photek » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:54 pm

jawafour wrote:I'm not denying that, underneath the furore about loot boxes and DLC, Shadow of War looks pretty good. I feel that Warner only has itself to blame for that noise, though - it feels a little rum to suggest that the players should suck it up.

This is the crux of the entire issue. Do loot box's influence or change my opinion of Overwatch? No. They literally have no bearing on my enjoyment of the game, I'm not 'sucking it up' or enjoying it through gritted teeth either, they have zero impact.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by jawafour » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:05 pm

Photek wrote:...They literally have no bearing on my enjoyment of the game, I'm not 'sucking it up' or enjoying it through gritted teeth either, they have zero impact.

That's fair enough, Photek - you're choosing to take the view that you are not concerned at the impact the loot boxes are having on the game. Some games feature player-empowering items / buffs from the loot boxes, though, and - to me - I am wary of their increasing prevalance in gaming. I also - personally - dislike the random nature of the loot boxes in some games; they encourage some people with addictive personalities to spend money until they get the item/effect that they desire. Even cosmetic loot boxes are, to me, a worrying trend. I play Elder Scrolls Online (sometimes :shifty: ...) and the loot box system is now rife; many items can now only be gained via the randomised loot boxes.

Another concern is how games popular with younger people are focused on loot boxes, too. My young nephew plays FIFA and his main concern about putting the game on his birthday list was that he only wanted the "Ronaldo" edition i.e. the version that comes with loot boxes (FUT packets) for twenty weeks. Him and his mates are totally focused on getting decent players from this loot box system.

If you're comfortable with this these of approaches, that's cool. I suspect that many folk aren't, though.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Harry Bizzle » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:08 pm

jawafour wrote:
Harry Bizzle wrote:Completely unnecessary from the player's perspective, maybe, but not from that of the publisher. Single player AAA development is getting riskier all the time. ...It makes perfect sense.

That's quite an unusual perspective to take, Harry... perhaps publishers should take a step back and assesss whether these loot box systems are actually a good thing? Are they really unable to sell a product and make a profit without having loot boxes? I struggle to think of any other media goods or services where it necessary for the manufacturer to involve gambling in the sale of their products... well, outside of actual gambling, obvs.

I'm not denying that, underneath the furore about loot boxes and DLC, Shadow of War looks pretty good. I feel that Warner only has itself to blame for that noise, though - it feels a little rum to suggest that the players should suck it up.



I don't think we should advocate for the publisher, but it's not "completely unnecessary."

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Photek » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:19 pm

jawafour wrote:
Photek wrote:...They literally have no bearing on my enjoyment of the game, I'm not 'sucking it up' or enjoying it through gritted teeth either, they have zero impact.

That's fair enough, Photek - you're choosing to take the view that you are not concerned at the impact the loot boxes are having on the game. Some games feature player-empowering items / buffs from the loot boxes, though, and - to me - I am wary of their increasing prevalance in gaming.

You can call it a 'view' but its the reality, the games that I own that have loot boxes or similar devices do not impact the game or my enjoyment of it. I find the whole narrative of loot boxes triggering people to lose their gooseberry fool a symptom of why I'm embarrassed to be a gamer. Warner crow barred it into this game and that's not cool but holy gooseberry fool the blowback of all these entitled gamers is ridiculous.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:25 pm

Harry Bizzle wrote:
jawafour wrote:
Harry Bizzle wrote:Completely unnecessary from the player's perspective, maybe, but not from that of the publisher. Single player AAA development is getting riskier all the time. ...It makes perfect sense.

That's quite an unusual perspective to take, Harry... perhaps publishers should take a step back and assesss whether these loot box systems are actually a good thing? Are they really unable to sell a product and make a profit without having loot boxes? I struggle to think of any other media goods or services where it necessary for the manufacturer to involve gambling in the sale of their products... well, outside of actual gambling, obvs.

I'm not denying that, underneath the furore about loot boxes and DLC, Shadow of War looks pretty good. I feel that Warner only has itself to blame for that noise, though - it feels a little rum to suggest that the players should suck it up.



I don't think we should advocate for the publisher, but it's not "completely unnecessary."


Shadow of Mordor didnt need them and it did just fine, and reviewed well without any accompanying controversy. Whats so different about SoW that requires a marketplace and loot boxes? Oh right, nothing, they're just artificially extending the length of the game by 40 hours in order to sell loot boxes to gullible chumps, so when you look at it like that, yes it is actually completely unnecessary. It adds nothing to the game except for a way to bypass 40 hours of extraneous bollocks. If publishers are worried about the sales of AAA games, maybe they could fix that by making consumer friendly decisions and better games.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by jawafour » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:26 pm

Photek wrote:...I find the whole narrative of loot boxes triggering people to lose their gooseberry fool a symptom of why I'm embarrassed to be a gamer. Warner crow barred it into this game and that's not cool but holy gooseberry fool the blowback of all these entitled gamers is ridiculous.

I would take the opposite view in that "I'm embarrassed by the blowback from these publisher-kissing gamers and I find it ridiculous". I suspect we won't agree on this :) .

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Photek » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:30 pm

jawafour wrote:
Photek wrote:...I find the whole narrative of loot boxes triggering people to lose their gooseberry fool a symptom of why I'm embarrassed to be a gamer. Warner crow barred it into this game and that's not cool but holy gooseberry fool the blowback of all these entitled gamers is ridiculous.

I would take the opposite view in that "I'm embarrassed by the blowback from these publisher-kissing gamers and I find it ridiculous". I suspect we won't agree on this :) .

I'm in work so don't know how to start with this. Just because I'm not bothered by loot boxes does not mean I love publishers.....that's a big leap man. strawberry floating huge.

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by jawafour » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:36 pm

Photek wrote:I'm in work so don't know how to start with this. Just because I'm not bothered by loot boxes does not mean I love publishers.....that's a big leap man. strawberry floating huge.

I just followed your style of response, dude - just because I am bothered by loot boxes doesn't mean that I am "entitled" or causing folk embarassment. But, hey, it doesn't matter :lol: .

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PostRe: Middle-earth: Shadow of War - PC, PS4, XB - Due OCT 10 - Has reviewed well.
by Photek » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:37 pm

jawafour wrote:
Photek wrote:I'm in work so don't know how to start with this. Just because I'm not bothered by loot boxes does not mean I love publishers.....that's a big leap man. strawberry floating huge.

I just followed your style of response, dude - just because I am bothered by loot boxes doesn't mean that I am "entitled" or causing folk embarassment. But, hey, it doesn't matter :lol: .

Indeed, go back to defending No Mans Sky. ;)

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