Star Wars Battlefront II

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Tafdolphin » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:04 am

jiggles wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
jiggles wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
jiggles wrote:That people are thinking the offering today is an improvement at all over the offering yesterday only proves that most people didn't even know what they were angry about.

I think the issue is that people aren't aware of the details. They're seeing the headline "EA Removes Microtransactions from Battlefront II" and that's it, leading them to assume they're gone permanently which is exactly what EA will have been hoping for.


I'm not talking about them coming back later. I'm saying yesterday's game with the microtransactions removed isn't better than it was. If anything, it's a little worse.

It's just another case of brainless word-allergy. "Microtransaction = bad, so no microtransaction = good".


The game was seemingly designed to push people towards microtransactions. With these now removed all you've got is a multiplayer game with a non-functioning (or at best, glacially slow) reward system.


So, what difference to you as a player if the guy who killed you has better gear because he paid for crates rather than grinding for hours for crates?


I actually don't know what your argument is, I just said something I thought was true.

Microtransactions = bad.

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Rubix » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:09 am

Trelliz wrote:The microtransactions are easily startled, but they'll soon be back, and in greater numbers...


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jiggles
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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by jiggles » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:18 am

Tafdolphin wrote:
jiggles wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
jiggles wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
jiggles wrote:That people are thinking the offering today is an improvement at all over the offering yesterday only proves that most people didn't even know what they were angry about.

I think the issue is that people aren't aware of the details. They're seeing the headline "EA Removes Microtransactions from Battlefront II" and that's it, leading them to assume they're gone permanently which is exactly what EA will have been hoping for.


I'm not talking about them coming back later. I'm saying yesterday's game with the microtransactions removed isn't better than it was. If anything, it's a little worse.

It's just another case of brainless word-allergy. "Microtransaction = bad, so no microtransaction = good".


The game was seemingly designed to push people towards microtransactions. With these now removed all you've got is a multiplayer game with a non-functioning (or at best, glacially slow) reward system.


So, what difference to you as a player if the guy who killed you has better gear because he paid for crates rather than grinding for hours for crates?


I actually don't know what your argument is, I just said something I thought was true.

Microtransactions = bad.


A game designed with microtransactions in mind is worse than a game that isn't, but a game designed with microtransactions in mind with the microtransactions switched off is worse still.

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Tafdolphin » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:20 am

jiggles wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
jiggles wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
jiggles wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
jiggles wrote:That people are thinking the offering today is an improvement at all over the offering yesterday only proves that most people didn't even know what they were angry about.

I think the issue is that people aren't aware of the details. They're seeing the headline "EA Removes Microtransactions from Battlefront II" and that's it, leading them to assume they're gone permanently which is exactly what EA will have been hoping for.


I'm not talking about them coming back later. I'm saying yesterday's game with the microtransactions removed isn't better than it was. If anything, it's a little worse.

It's just another case of brainless word-allergy. "Microtransaction = bad, so no microtransaction = good".


The game was seemingly designed to push people towards microtransactions. With these now removed all you've got is a multiplayer game with a non-functioning (or at best, glacially slow) reward system.


So, what difference to you as a player if the guy who killed you has better gear because he paid for crates rather than grinding for hours for crates?


I actually don't know what your argument is, I just said something I thought was true.

Microtransactions = bad.


A game designed with microtransactions in mind is worse than a game that isn't, but a game designed with microtransactions in mind with the microtransactions switched off is worse still.


Well that's what I was trying to say in a roundabout way. Now all you've got is a game with a deathly slow progression system.

We agree, is what I'm saying. Sort of.

Microtransactions = bad.

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jawafour
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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by jawafour » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:33 am

jiggles, I’m not totally sure what angle you’re coming into this from... it may be me misunderstanding your point. On the surface, it appears that you may think the loot boxes / cards were (are) a good thing? Sure, paid systems don’t *have* to be “bad”... but were they “good” in this game?

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Denster » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:34 pm


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jiggles
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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by jiggles » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:46 pm

jawafour wrote:jiggles, I’m not totally sure what angle you’re coming into this from... it may be me misunderstanding your point. On the surface, it appears that you may think the loot boxes / cards were (are) a good thing? Sure, paid systems don’t *have* to be “bad”... but were they “good” in this game?


As we've already said, the lootboxes and star cards haven't changed at all, not even temporarily. There is no validity in using the past tense to describe them here.

They aren't a good thing, for sure. They are a bad thing. But they're also not nearly as bad as everyone has been led to believe. The advantage you get from a top tier loadout isn't so great that you're going to win lots of encounters that you would otherwise lose. But there is still no positive to their inclusion at all.

Now the only way to advance with this bad system is to spend loads of time with it. Before there was the option to instead spend money if you felt it was worth it, but now that's gone. Any problem people were having with being at a disadvantage to other players is still there, completely unchanged. The game would be better if the system was removed, but this system with the payment option removed is even worse than when you could pay.

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by jawafour » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:12 pm

jiggles wrote:They aren't a good thing, for sure. They are a bad thing. But they're also not nearly as bad as everyone has been led to believe... ...The game would be better if the system was removed, but this system with the payment option removed is even worse than when you could pay.

I wonder why EA started out with that system? Presumably because they thought it would be accepted and that they'd be able to ride over any furore that arose. As you say, it would appear that they’re left with a game with a significant focus upon payments for progression... that now doesn’t accept payments (for a while). It seems like a bit of a mess.

Of course, though, the vast bulk of potential purchasers in the mass market probably won’t have any idea of all these shenanigans and will still pick up the game... with a smaller - but still financially beneficial to EA - number spending out on the paid loot boxes when they are restored. I can’t see big publishers changing their approaches too significantly in the long term.

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Trelliz » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:34 pm

jawafour wrote:I wonder why EA started out with that system? Presumably because they thought it would be accepted and that they'd be able to ride over any furore that arose.


Exactly. To quote jim strawberry floating sterling, son: give publishers an inch and they'll take everything. This is all about pushing to establish a new narrative where lootboxes and paying real money for them in addition to buying a full game is normal and accepted, and they can get money for nothing all day as a result.

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Hexx » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:48 pm

"games as a service"

Basically their AAA budgets have got so out of control that sales are never enough now. They need a decent "tail" of ongoing income from DLC etc

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Preezy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:58 pm

I don't think I really understand the term "games as a service".

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by jawafour » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:18 pm

Preezy wrote:I don't think I really understand the term "games as a service".

Think of it as "ongoing income"; the big publishers don't want games to be a one-off purchase.

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Zartan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:09 pm

It is not tied to gaming, everyone wants you to be subscribed to everything. I would love to see the stats for Cars, as I think finance agreements are far more popular now than ever, big software has stopped with releasing individual packages and now expect you to be subscribed (Adobe Photoshop) I am constantly hearing adverts for shaving, and clothing subscriptions. People no longer want the 1 off sale they want the long tail too.

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Met » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:10 pm

The main difference I feel is that the car maker isn't taking the steering wheel out to sell back as an extra.

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Moggy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:15 pm

Preezy wrote:I don't think I really understand the term "games as a service".


Instead of just buying a game and then being able to play it all, publishers are increasingly looking towards getting buyers to purchase the game and then keep purchasing add-ons for that game. It was fine when people were buying additional levels or extra game modes, but now they are increasingly adding in ways of getting that cash by locking parts of the game away and saying “well you can grind for 40 hours, or for £3 you can buy a box that might (or might not!) give you an amazing weapon!”.

The game is therefore not just a game like the old days, it is now a service that people are continually paying extra for if they want to see everything/unlock everything without a massive amount of time spent.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Hexx » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:16 pm

Preezy wrote:I don't think I really understand the term "games as a service".


I've not got sound but I think explains it (ignore the freemium bit)



It used to by you buy a game, you got a product. You got enjoyment for hours/weeks/months - but you'd got, ahem, the full package. The company got money once. Wham bam thank you Sam. A nice simple transaction. But it was a one time deal.

Companies want to change that. They want a constant stream of income. A game purchase isn't a "one off" transaction anymore, it's a platform for future purchases. It's a gateway, For a steady stream of transactions - be it DLC packs, micro transactions, loot boxes.

They're leveraging consumers to be paying constantly during the lifespan of the product - where as previously you'd paid once from the lifespan.

It's not really a "service" - companies like to use that word to suggest consumers are getting something, other than gouged for more money.

It started (I think) with sub based MMOs and "proper" DLC packs.
Then freemium games (they didn't have money upfront) but can be a decent long term income trail for companies.

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Preezy
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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Preezy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:29 pm

Hexx wrote:It's not really a "service" - companies like to use that word to suggest consumers are getting something, other than gouged for more money.

That's what was confusing me. The use of the word service seems completely at odds with the reality.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Hexx » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:31 pm

Preezy wrote:
Hexx wrote:It's not really a "service" - companies like to use that word to suggest consumers are getting something, other than gouged for more money.

That's what was confusing me. The use of the word service seems completely at odds with the reality.


You get constantly updated content that you pay for!
How generous we are to you sir!

I used service though to suggest an ongoing relationship. Previously games were a "product" (to me) which you bought, now it's an "ongoing service" you take up.

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Zartan
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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Zartan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:00 pm

Depends on the game Hexx, there are games that work as a service and there are those that do not, any single player game has no business being in a GaaS model. Battlefront it is possible, but not like this. I think Overwatch is walking the line on what is acceptable, but it has had a lot of content provided over the last year that I have personally not paid for.

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PostRe: Star Wars Battlefront II | Launches 17th November on Origin, PS4 and XO - First Trailer Inside
by Lagamorph » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:27 pm

Hexx wrote:"games as a service"

Basically their AAA budgets have got so out of control that sales are never enough now. They need a decent "tail" of ongoing income from DLC etc

The idea that Microtransactions and F2P economies are necessary because of increased development costs has been well and truly debunked.
It's nothing more than maximising profits for shareholders who don't even understand what a computer game is.

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