The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS* new trailer p193

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The Watching Artist
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by The Watching Artist » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:39 pm

BID0 wrote:The trailer, and this...



Do not fill me with confidence.

Very odd thing to say in public.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Return_of_the_STAR » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:17 am

The Watching Artist wrote:
BID0 wrote:The trailer, and this...



Do not fill me with confidence.

Very odd thing to say in public.


He does seem like an odd person though.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:58 am

I really think that Hamill should have been given a say in the direction of his character's story.

Jupiter is in your sun sign this week, making it pretty crowded in there, what with Jupiter being the largest of the planets and all.
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by The Watching Artist » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:04 am

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
The Watching Artist wrote:
BID0 wrote:The trailer, and this...



Do not fill me with confidence.

Very odd thing to say in public.


He does seem like an odd person though.

Perhaps but I like that he felt strongly enough to speak his mind. (Hamill as well ;) )
Alvin Flummux wrote:I really think that Hamill should have been given a say in the direction of his character's story.
Yeah. Without Lucas involved you'd like to think they would take on board the opinion of one of the other creators of the character.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:52 am

The Watching Artist wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:I really think that Hamill should have been given a say in the direction of his character's story.
Yeah. Without Lucas involved you'd like to think they would take on board the opinion of one of the other creators of the character.


Now I'm having a little panic about the film. :dread: I hope that when they make the last one, Episode IX, that they'll give him a chance to put his opinions out there.

Jupiter is in your sun sign this week, making it pretty crowded in there, what with Jupiter being the largest of the planets and all.
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Parksey » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:43 am

I sort of agree with what Bido said in a fundamental way (I'm not a fundamentalist though). Both the best and the worst thing you can say about The Force Awakens is that George Lucas didn't do it.

In a positive way, this means they were always probably going to avoid most of the flaws that blighted the prequels.

But in a negative way, I dunno, part of would liked to have seen where Lucas took his story. You can definitely tell - in a good and bad way - that it wasn't Lucas' plot. They didn't do anything risky or anything that would upset fans but, like, they didn't do anything risky. The story was as safe as they could possibly go. The other six episodes felt like distinct chapters in a saga, whereas TFA felt like a re-telling. For obvious reasons, they decided a reintroduction or soft reboot was necessary, so I guess it can't be helped. But an Episode 7 made by George Lucas would have probably been a lot bolder, at least in terms of plot. TFA also felt a little "designed" by a committee or group of people and lacked a touch of singular focus that comes when something is borne of one creative vision.

As I said, we definitely gained some things by having a non-Lucas episode - the dialogue was much improved, visually it looked great and I really like the new characters and think they fit in the saga quite well. I just wish the story (so far) had been a bit more interesting. Post-ROTJ, and free from the restrictive SW canon that had accumulated, they could have taken it in any number of new, interesting directions. So for them to basically remake A New Hope for a new generation was a little disappointing, although the execution and characters did at least make it an enjoyable watch. But I will never watch TFA and have my attention held by its plot. It's fun in a minute-by-minute sense and I am interested where episode 8 takes things, but I think Episode 7 has a throwaway forgettable narrative that is forgiven because it wasn't a trainwreck and wasn't the prequels.

It's sort of like when an author or creator of a long-running series dies and an installment has to be finished by someone else. There's always the sense of an "other" behind it, and a slight longing to see where the original mind would have taken its own creation. As we're taking about Lucas, that missed opportunity to have him write his own sequel trilogy is also tempered by the fact that it also freed the current films from some of his more (general) grievous mistakes.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Poser » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:17 am

BID0 wrote:
Dual wrote:
BID0 wrote:The last episode was awful


No it wasn't.

Literally the worst of them all unless these next two change the context of it and it turns out to be a hidden masterpiece


:|

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Ad7 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:30 am

That video, hmmmm :|

I can see Luke finally giving up on light and dark sides and just embracing the force as one thing, then perhaps joining Ren to finish his training :dread:

strawberry float it, I want the next episode dark as strawberry float, if that means dark Luke ( he was nearly there in ROTJ anyway) then so be it...jedi.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Poser » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:46 am

Ad7 wrote:That video, hmmmm :|

I can see Luke finally giving up on light and dark sides and just embracing the force as one thing, then perhaps joining Ren to finish his training :dread:

strawberry float it, I want the next episode dark as strawberry float, if that means dark Luke ( he was nearly there in ROTJ anyway) then so be it...jedi.


It's difficult trying to second guess Mark Hamill - does he want Luke to be dark and has been disappointed, or does he believe Luke should have been a good guy :lol: :?

I agree with you, I want dark Luke. I think the reason he has isolated himself is because he knows how close he always runs to succumbing to the dark side (plus it happened to Ren).

In that trailer, when he says the Jedi need to end... :datass:

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by sawyerpip » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:54 am

My main problem with Luke turning to the dark side is I feel that it would retrospectively hurt the end of Return of the Jedi.

"I'll never turn to the dark side. I am a Jedi like my father before me. Except when they make Episode VIII."

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Poser » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:44 am

sawyerpip wrote:My main problem with Luke turning to the dark side is I feel that it would retrospectively hurt the end of Return of the Jedi.

"I'll never turn to the dark side. I am a Jedi like my father before me. Except when they make Episode VIII."


I hadn't thought of that. Good point.

It's also made me realise that the 'prophecy' about Anakin bringing balance to the force - which he effectively did at the end of RotJ - has also been undone by the existence of events in VII.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by HSH28 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:49 am

sawyerpip wrote:My main problem with Luke turning to the dark side is I feel that it would retrospectively hurt the end of Return of the Jedi.

"I'll never turn to the dark side. I am a Jedi like my father before me. Except when they make Episode VIII."


It already happened in the EU anyway.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by HSH28 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:56 am

Poser wrote:It's also made me realise that the 'prophecy' about Anakin bringing balance to the force - which he effectively did at the end of RotJ - has also been undone by the existence of events in VII.


How did killing the Emperor and turning from the Dark side bring balance to the force?

Unless, he brought balance by getting rid of the Jedi and the Sith, this is why the Jedi have to end. If that's the case then its not being undone by the events in the new film, just finished off.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hexx » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:04 am

If anyone wants cheap stuff The Entertainer is selling Star Wars Risk (it's nothing like Risk, it's a 2 player battle of Endor) for £13 down from £35, and the Disney Infinite figures for £4.

I've now got this on my desk

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Poser » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:06 am

HSH28 wrote:
Poser wrote:It's also made me realise that the 'prophecy' about Anakin bringing balance to the force - which he effectively did at the end of RotJ - has also been undone by the existence of events in VII.


How did killing the Emperor and turning from the Dark side bring balance to the force?

Unless, he brought balance by getting rid of the Jedi and the Sith, this is why the Jedi have to end. If that's the case then its not being undone by the events in the new film, just finished off.


I always assumed that as it was a Jedi prophecy, that the interpretation of 'bringing balance' would would be along the lines of 'getting rid of the Sith'. TBH, I always thought the prophecy stuff was bollocks, along with much of the prequels - but I was able to reconcile it on the basis that Vader's actions at the end of VI were completing that circle and fulfilling the prophecy by finally overthrowing the Sith.


As for your bit in bold: that is exactly what I've been wondering.

Ie. that the only way for the force to truly balance is for there to be neither Sith nor Jedi. It does therefore seem odd, when you think about it, that Luke decided to try to train a whole load more Jedi. Surely the risk of one of them turning was fairly great. There's a lot of precedent for it in the past (ie many of the Sith Lords are converted Jedi).

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by The Watching Artist » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:25 am

Alvin Flummux wrote:
The Watching Artist wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:I really think that Hamill should have been given a say in the direction of his character's story.
Yeah. Without Lucas involved you'd like to think they would take on board the opinion of one of the other creators of the character.


Now I'm having a little panic about the film. :dread: I hope that when they make the last one, Episode IX, that they'll give him a chance to put his opinions out there.

Doesn't really mean the film will be good/bad though. But it is a bit worrying. Hamill might have some bat gooseberry fool crazy idea. :lol: I think the most important thing is that Luke reacts to events in the correct way. I still find it a bit hard to stomach the idea that Luke would go into hiding (letting it all go to gooseberry fool) given everything he did and fought for in the original trilogy.

Not sure where I stand on the Dark Luke thing. To me he has to be a hero but that doesn't mean he shouldn't struggle. Thats why the end of ROTJ is so awesome.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by The Watching Artist » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:34 am

Parksey wrote:snip

Pretty much agree with this (apart from a few little things) and why I can understand the opinion of the great Bido.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:32 am

The Watching Artist wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:
The Watching Artist wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:I really think that Hamill should have been given a say in the direction of his character's story.
Yeah. Without Lucas involved you'd like to think they would take on board the opinion of one of the other creators of the character.


Now I'm having a little panic about the film. :dread: I hope that when they make the last one, Episode IX, that they'll give him a chance to put his opinions out there.

Doesn't really mean the film will be good/bad though. But it is a bit worrying. Hamill might have some bat gooseberry fool crazy idea. :lol: I think the most important thing is that Luke reacts to events in the correct way. I still find it a bit hard to stomach the idea that Luke would go into hiding (letting it all go to gooseberry fool) given everything he did and fought for in the original trilogy.

Not sure where I stand on the Dark Luke thing. To me he has to be a hero but that doesn't mean he shouldn't struggle. Thats why the end of ROTJ is so awesome.


I'm thinking that the burning building scene in the teaser trailer may end up being a flashback to Luke's Jedi Academy laid to waste by Kylo Ren, Snoke, Phasma and the First Order - before anyone knew there was a First Order. If it isn't that, then perhaps it's the First Order destroying the New Republic's interim government or some such thing, and the evidently-anguished hooded figure is Leia, rather than Luke. I think/hope Luke will give us a little exposition on his self-imposed exile to the first Jedi's home, I think we could use it.

I don't think that Luke will go dark, personally, but I think that he may embrace elements traditionally associated with the dark side. I think that his time spent meditating/researching at the home of the earliest Jedi has provided him with a great deal of insight, and/or a revelation or two. Maybe he's accepted a concept of the Force as one big unified thing, rather than a thing with a light side and a dark side, and as such he must end the Jedi and maybe begin a new kind of order, able to straddle the concepts of "light" and "dark".

Edit: Apparently the Revenge of the Sith novelization (which is canon) has the full explanation:

"It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the
lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.
It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.
In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his
vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
Finally, he saw the truth.
This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest,
most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...
just—didn't—
have it.
He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.
He had lost before he was born.
The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand
years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in
preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.
While the Jedi—
The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.
The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away
by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one
win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark's own weapon?
He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell
here, that hope would die with him."


Which apparently ties directly into Luke and Leia being split up and not trained in the Jedi ways...

"We should split them up," Obi-Wan said. "Even if the Sith find one, the other may
survive. I can take the boy, Master Yoda, and you take the girl. We can hide them away, keep
them safe— train them as Anakin should have been trained—"
"No." The ancient Master lowered his head again, closing his eyes, resting his chin on
his hands that were folded over the head of his stick.
Obi-Wan looked uncertain. "But how are they to learn the self-discipline a Jedi needs?
How are they to master skills of the Force?"
"Jedi training, the sole source of self-discipline is not. When right is the time for skills to
be taught, to us the living Force will bring them. Until then, wait we will, and watch, and
learn."


So... Episode IX could see Luke and Rey found a New Jedi Order, more shades of grey than rigidly light.

Last edited by Alvin Flummux on Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:57 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Jupiter is in your sun sign this week, making it pretty crowded in there, what with Jupiter being the largest of the planets and all.
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Preezy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:03 pm

Watched the trailer this morning, looks pretty good. Will watch.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by sawyerpip » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:47 pm

HSH28 wrote:
sawyerpip wrote:My main problem with Luke turning to the dark side is I feel that it would retrospectively hurt the end of Return of the Jedi.

"I'll never turn to the dark side. I am a Jedi like my father before me. Except when they make Episode VIII."


It already happened in the EU anyway.


Given the amount of material there is it would surprise me more if it hadn't happened in the EU.


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