The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Poser » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:06 am

HSH28 wrote:
Poser wrote:It's also made me realise that the 'prophecy' about Anakin bringing balance to the force - which he effectively did at the end of RotJ - has also been undone by the existence of events in VII.


How did killing the Emperor and turning from the Dark side bring balance to the force?

Unless, he brought balance by getting rid of the Jedi and the Sith, this is why the Jedi have to end. If that's the case then its not being undone by the events in the new film, just finished off.


I always assumed that as it was a Jedi prophecy, that the interpretation of 'bringing balance' would would be along the lines of 'getting rid of the Sith'. TBH, I always thought the prophecy stuff was bollocks, along with much of the prequels - but I was able to reconcile it on the basis that Vader's actions at the end of VI were completing that circle and fulfilling the prophecy by finally overthrowing the Sith.


As for your bit in bold: that is exactly what I've been wondering.

Ie. that the only way for the force to truly balance is for there to be neither Sith nor Jedi. It does therefore seem odd, when you think about it, that Luke decided to try to train a whole load more Jedi. Surely the risk of one of them turning was fairly great. There's a lot of precedent for it in the past (ie many of the Sith Lords are converted Jedi).

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by The Watching Artist » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:25 am

Alvin Flummux wrote:
The Watching Artist wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:I really think that Hamill should have been given a say in the direction of his character's story.
Yeah. Without Lucas involved you'd like to think they would take on board the opinion of one of the other creators of the character.


Now I'm having a little panic about the film. :dread: I hope that when they make the last one, Episode IX, that they'll give him a chance to put his opinions out there.

Doesn't really mean the film will be good/bad though. But it is a bit worrying. Hamill might have some bat gooseberry fool crazy idea. :lol: I think the most important thing is that Luke reacts to events in the correct way. I still find it a bit hard to stomach the idea that Luke would go into hiding (letting it all go to gooseberry fool) given everything he did and fought for in the original trilogy.

Not sure where I stand on the Dark Luke thing. To me he has to be a hero but that doesn't mean he shouldn't struggle. Thats why the end of ROTJ is so awesome.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by The Watching Artist » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:34 am

Parksey wrote:snip

Pretty much agree with this (apart from a few little things) and why I can understand the opinion of the great Bido.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:32 am

The Watching Artist wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:
The Watching Artist wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:I really think that Hamill should have been given a say in the direction of his character's story.
Yeah. Without Lucas involved you'd like to think they would take on board the opinion of one of the other creators of the character.


Now I'm having a little panic about the film. :dread: I hope that when they make the last one, Episode IX, that they'll give him a chance to put his opinions out there.

Doesn't really mean the film will be good/bad though. But it is a bit worrying. Hamill might have some bat gooseberry fool crazy idea. :lol: I think the most important thing is that Luke reacts to events in the correct way. I still find it a bit hard to stomach the idea that Luke would go into hiding (letting it all go to gooseberry fool) given everything he did and fought for in the original trilogy.

Not sure where I stand on the Dark Luke thing. To me he has to be a hero but that doesn't mean he shouldn't struggle. Thats why the end of ROTJ is so awesome.


I'm thinking that the burning building scene in the teaser trailer may end up being a flashback to Luke's Jedi Academy laid to waste by Kylo Ren, Snoke, Phasma and the First Order - before anyone knew there was a First Order. If it isn't that, then perhaps it's the First Order destroying the New Republic's interim government or some such thing, and the evidently-anguished hooded figure is Leia, rather than Luke. I think/hope Luke will give us a little exposition on his self-imposed exile to the first Jedi's home, I think we could use it.

I don't think that Luke will go dark, personally, but I think that he may embrace elements traditionally associated with the dark side. I think that his time spent meditating/researching at the home of the earliest Jedi has provided him with a great deal of insight, and/or a revelation or two. Maybe he's accepted a concept of the Force as one big unified thing, rather than a thing with a light side and a dark side, and as such he must end the Jedi and maybe begin a new kind of order, able to straddle the concepts of "light" and "dark".

Edit: Apparently the Revenge of the Sith novelization (which is canon) has the full explanation:

"It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the
lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.
It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.
In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his
vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
Finally, he saw the truth.
This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest,
most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...
just—didn't—
have it.
He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.
He had lost before he was born.
The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand
years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in
preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.
While the Jedi—
The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.
The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away
by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one
win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark's own weapon?
He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell
here, that hope would die with him."


Which apparently ties directly into Luke and Leia being split up and not trained in the Jedi ways...

"We should split them up," Obi-Wan said. "Even if the Sith find one, the other may
survive. I can take the boy, Master Yoda, and you take the girl. We can hide them away, keep
them safe— train them as Anakin should have been trained—"
"No." The ancient Master lowered his head again, closing his eyes, resting his chin on
his hands that were folded over the head of his stick.
Obi-Wan looked uncertain. "But how are they to learn the self-discipline a Jedi needs?
How are they to master skills of the Force?"
"Jedi training, the sole source of self-discipline is not. When right is the time for skills to
be taught, to us the living Force will bring them. Until then, wait we will, and watch, and
learn."


So... Episode IX could see Luke and Rey found a New Jedi Order, more shades of grey than rigidly light.

Last edited by Alvin Flummux on Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:57 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Preezy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:03 pm

Watched the trailer this morning, looks pretty good. Will watch.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by sawyerpip » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:47 pm

HSH28 wrote:
sawyerpip wrote:My main problem with Luke turning to the dark side is I feel that it would retrospectively hurt the end of Return of the Jedi.

"I'll never turn to the dark side. I am a Jedi like my father before me. Except when they make Episode VIII."


It already happened in the EU anyway.


Given the amount of material there is it would surprise me more if it hadn't happened in the EU.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by BID0 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:30 pm

The Watching Artist wrote:
Parksey wrote:snip

Pretty much agree with this (apart from a few little things) and why I can understand the opinion of the great Bido.

Parksey put it in to words, and I totally agree.

TFA basically wasted the entire 90 minutes it had. It didn't do anything with them to develop the Star Wars storyline and it also wasted characters and their deaths. 30 in-movie years had passed since the instalment before it and it wasn't really explained how the people or the climate were where they were in that movie. I didn't care about any of the characters (new or old) at all.

I don't really like saying that as there are still two more films to go, but a film really should stand on its own and tell and complete a story of some sort, even if it's part of something bigger.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Skippy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:16 pm

Calling TFA a waste is unfair given the three excellent characters it set up to carry the rest of the trilogy. Establishing those characters, who have all the potential to match classic Star Wars characters before them, was the film's greatest and most important achievement. In terms of plot you're absolutely right, it didn't do much new, but given its position as a soft reboot for a new generation I'm okay with that because the new characters it introduced were so good. It's up to The Last Jedi to put that to use with a story that does new and interesting things.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by The Watching Artist » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:38 pm

BID0 wrote:
The Watching Artist wrote:
Parksey wrote:snip

Pretty much agree with this (apart from a few little things) and why I can understand the opinion of the great Bido.

Parksey put it in to words, and I totally agree.

TFA basically wasted the entire 90 minutes it had. It didn't do anything with them to develop the Star Wars storyline and it also wasted characters and their deaths. 30 in-movie years had passed since the instalment before it and it wasn't really explained how the people or the climate were where they were in that movie. I didn't care about any of the characters (new or old) at all.

I don't really like saying that as there are still two more films to go, but a film really should stand on its own and tell and complete a story of some sort, even if it's part of something bigger.

My biggest fear for TFA was that it would try so hard to be STAR WARS, just as you remember it, that it wouldn't be something new. As I saw the poster and the trailer that began to increase. Then I saw the opening crawl and the term "resistance" and it pretty much confirmed my fears. It was a blatant way of making it more like the good old days.
Skippy wrote:the three excellent characters it set up to carry the rest of the trilogy............... but given its position as a soft reboot for a new generation.

Personally apart from Kylo I wouldn't call any of the new characters excellent. I think Rey has potential but some of the things it does with her are clumsy. She is too damn awesome all the time (which weakens the drama of the conclusion) and I think making such a big deal about her parents will be a mistake. Finn was a waste IMO. Pushed far too hard to be the funny one. But how much more interesting would he have been if he really had felt like an ex stormtrooper? Someone with blood on his hands? Someone who you see actually turn from a baddie to a goodie? Oh but no. He has to be likeable. We have to like him. But you know what? In ANH I didn't like Han. Han was a jerk. A dick. A selfish prick who will gun people down in a bar if he has to. Someone who thought he'd have a chance with a princess despite being a total twat. But thats exactly why he was an engaging character and it made his growth all the more fantastic. Now Ace Rimmer was awesome. He was really AWESOME. Awesome to the max. But hardly in it enough to judge him as an all round character.

I also don't really understand why Star Wars had to have a "soft reboot". Are the other films really so hard to find and watch? Have they been lost in time? Destroyed by people who thought they had no value anymore? TPM wasn't one despite the hiatus being even longer. Sure, newbies need to be taught what the force is etc. But did they need a reenactment of ANH? Did they need the Empire and the Rebellion in all but name fighting again?

Anyway. I've said all that before I think. But back to the vid. Hamill gets cut off about the idea he liked but this might be it....



At first I :slol: but then I thought about it and a weaponised cloned Sith Luke sounds all kinds of awesome to me.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by BID0 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:04 pm

The worst thing they can do in my opinion is what I call "muppet babies" where all these new characters end up being baby versions of all of the original cast.

For example if the offspring of Lando turned up to help baby chewbacca the second. And I really hope Rey isn't linked in that way.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:18 pm

Rey is Admiral Ackbar's long lost love child, born of a passionate fling he had with Mon Mothma just after the Battle of Endor.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hexx » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:32 pm

Jar Jar's final fate is revealed in the new canon novel

Banished and hated by his people, living life a street performer/clown/begger

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:28 pm

Hexx wrote:Jar Jar's final fate is revealed in the new canon novel

Banished and hated by his people, living life a street performer/clown/begger


Which novel is that, then? One of the Aftermath trilogy?

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hexx » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:10 am

Yeah last aftermath. sorry I'll find link when back at pc

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hexx » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:14 am


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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Tomous » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:02 am

Episode 9 set for May 24th 2019 (may the twenty-forth be with you lolz!)

Thought they'd maintain Christmas releases personally.

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PostThe Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Parksey » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:30 am

It has become part of my Christmas tradition now - come back to the UK for the holidays, generally arrive about 6am in London, go and see the new SW film at the cinema with friends, fall asleep about 45 minutes in, go and see it again properly before I return here.

They've ruined Christmas.

Also a quicker turnaround for Episode 9 - did the shoot some stuff back to back? It's got a different director though.

I do wish there was longer between releases in the episodic films. Even the release of the prequels felt like events, and whereas the yearly releases have already smudged a tiny bit of the excitement away.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Rax » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:58 am

I thought they would keep to the Xmas release schedule too, "own" that release slot for the next few years. But then again it is Star Wars and it doesnt matter when they release, theyll get people to go no matter what.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by BID0 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:42 am

They'll bump it to December like they always do. They announced the previous ones for May too but moved them.

Disney doesn't want to put Star Wars against Marvel.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread - *NO SPOILERS*
by Tomous » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:42 pm

BID0 wrote:They'll bump it to December like they always do. They announced the previous ones for May too but moved them.

Disney doesn't want to put Star Wars against Marvel.


Yeah, good point. They currently have Infinity War 2 for May 3rd 2019

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