^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
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Luboluke
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by Luboluke » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:11 pm

Aren't people sick of theorising about these films? It's incredible the sheer amount of storytelling they've managed not to do over 2 films. Seriously, the trilogy is almost over and the main character still has no back story, no arc, almost nothing to define them other than a lack of identity.

It couldn't be more obvious that they had no plan for this, why even make a trilogy of films if you don't even have a story to tell (I know the answer)? Makes JJ Abram's mystery box questions in the first part even more annoying because now we know that no one had any answers and as always our guess was as good as theirs. And the way this film reacts just comes across as incredibly jarring, as the second part of a trilogy it couldn't have done a worse job. It completely disregards the set up of the first film and does absolutely nothing to propel the story forward, we're virtually in the exact same place as before except Kylo has replaced Snoke and he's a less intimidating villain. The entire plot is basically devised to stall the story for as long as possible :lol:

Beyond their surface appeal these are clearly just silly blockbuster films and a cynical cash in, as were the prequels, but at least Lucas actually had a story he wanted to tell with those films. Not saying they are better because they clearly aren't, but at least they told a coherent and consistent story regardless of how poor the writing was. I honestly find it astounding the critical response this film has gotten, the screenplay is so incredibly daft at times. I'm not saying it's not enjoyable because it is, but it's so strawberry floating daft. :lol:

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gamerforever
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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by gamerforever » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:53 pm

They should have kept the same director for all 3 and written the trilogy at one time.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Errkal » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:56 pm

gamerforever wrote:They should have kept the same director for all 3 and written the trilogy at one time.

This.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Oblomov Boblomov » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:32 pm

Errkal wrote:
gamerforever wrote:They should have kept the same director for all 3 and written the trilogy at one time.

This.

What I wouldn't have given for a JJ hat trick of wonder and joy :wub:.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Poser » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:44 am

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Errkal wrote:
gamerforever wrote:They should have kept the same director for all 3 and written the trilogy at one time.

This.

What I wouldn't have given for a JJ hat trick of wonder and joy :wub:.


Yeah, this.

It's like a campfire game where one person starts a story then passes it on.

I didn't dislike TLJ, but I it didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy. I think TFA did that because it had been so long since a decent SW film and it had the right 'feel', and Rogue One did that because (I thought) it was a great film.

I mean... I'm glad I live in a world where they're still making Star Wars, but I sort of wish it was a bit better thought out.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by LewisD » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 am

Poser wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Errkal wrote:
gamerforever wrote:They should have kept the same director for all 3 and written the trilogy at one time.

This.

What I wouldn't have given for a JJ hat trick of wonder and joy :wub:.


Yeah, this.

It's like a campfire game where one person starts a story then passes it on..


:lol: I was saying to Bex the other night that it's like that challenge Gordon Ramsay does on Hell's kitchen where one chef starts a dish, has ten minutes to work on it before having to relay instructions to the next chef within 10 seconds before switching again in ten minutes. :lol:

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Parksey » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:30 am

Luboluke wrote:Aren't people sick of theorising about these films? It's incredible the sheer amount of storytelling they've managed not to do over 2 films. Seriously, the trilogy is almost over and the main character still has no back story, no arc, almost nothing to define them other than a lack of identity.

It couldn't be more obvious that they had no plan for this, why even make a trilogy of films if you don't even have a story to tell (I know the answer)? Makes JJ Abram's mystery box questions in the first part even more annoying because now we know that no one had any answers and as always our guess was as good as theirs. And the way this film reacts just comes across as incredibly jarring, as the second part of a trilogy it couldn't have done a worse job. It completely disregards the set up of the first film and does absolutely nothing to propel the story forward, we're virtually in the exact same place as before except Kylo has replaced Snoke and he's a less intimidating villain. The entire plot is basically devised to stall the story for as long as possible :lol:

Beyond their surface appeal these are clearly just silly blockbuster films and a cynical cash in, as were the prequels, but at least Lucas actually had a story he wanted to tell with those films. Not saying they are better because they clearly aren't, but at least they told a coherent and consistent story regardless of how poor the writing was. I honestly find it astounding the critical response this film has gotten, the screenplay is so incredibly daft at times. I'm not saying it's not enjoyable because it is, but it's so strawberry floating daft. :lol:


Yeah I feel the same way about the new movies too. For all their many flaws, I actually think the prequels have quite a strong story thread running through them all. The problem was in the writing and the execution (a pretty big problem, admittedly). But the ideas and imagination were fine. Each episode was different from the last and fairly distinct.

I just find the new movies uninspiring and unsatisfying. I forgave TFA being a retread largely because it was nevertheless enjoyable and the new characters were largely decent and had promise. But it's been two movies now and where are we? With an evil empire looming large and a disparate, weak rebellion in need of hope. We've had 300 minutes of story-telling maybe, and though there have been a few surprises in terms of what's happened to certain characters, the story hasn't really moved much. The story itself hasn't really gone anywhere too, seeing as we're basically back at the start of Episode 4 in terms of the current state of the galaxy. It also arguably lessens the impact of the original trilogy too as rather than go somewhere different or expand the story, they've gone again for the evil conquering empire and the struggling rebels.

They've played it too safe. You can level a lot of things at Lucas and the prequels but he made a bloody sci-fi movie about trade regulations and each of them at least had their own story beats. They were deliberately planned and mapped out too. I find it odd that fans come in and say each time that TFA and TLJ are "the best since Empire" and haven given Star Wars its soul back. I feel the opposite and whenever I watch the two new movies they just have a whiff of fan-fiction to me.

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Errkal
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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Errkal » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:30 am

LewisD wrote:
Poser wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Errkal wrote:
gamerforever wrote:They should have kept the same director for all 3 and written the trilogy at one time.

This.

What I wouldn't have given for a JJ hat trick of wonder and joy :wub:.


Yeah, this.

It's like a campfire game where one person starts a story then passes it on..


:lol: I was saying to Bex the other night that it's like that challenge Gordon Ramsay does on Hell's kitchen where one chef starts a dish, has ten minutes to work on it before having to relay instructions to the next chef within 10 seconds before switching again in ten minutes. :lol:


Except in the case of Star wars the second chef is trying to make a boognese and the first fish fingers, so is actively screwing when went before to fit their own plan.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Alvin Flummux » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:16 pm

The question is, how is it that a company like Disney, which you would think would treat their golden goose with the utmost care, came to allow this apparent incoherence?

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by Hexx » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:42 pm

Alvin Flummux wrote:The question is, how is it that a company like Disney, which you would think would treat their golden goose with the utmost care, came to allow this apparent incoherence?


They know it'll print money regardless?

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Tomous » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm

You’d think they’d have looked at how Kevin Feige steers the Marvel Universe and tried to do the same.

I thought thats what they wanted Kathleen Kennedy to do to be honest.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Alvin Flummux » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:37 pm

So, did anyone else notice that the First Jedi's books were aboard the Falcon at the end of the film? Gotta be some significance there.








This guy's Twitter is full of excellent, in-depth analyses and breakdowns of the films.



:shock: :o

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:30 am

Alvin Flummux wrote:So, did anyone else notice that the First Jedi's books were aboard the Falcon at the end of the film? Gotta be some significance there.





I’ve just got back from viewing it again and still really enjoyed it.

I noticed the books, interesting. I could just end up with them showing the Rey teaching younglings from the. books at the end of the next film though.

I don’t get this tweet though. That comment didn’t explain to Poe the plan. It was potentially just a throw away comment. They never said that they were flying towards a planet that they could escape to. That was clearly her plan and at no point was this told to Poe.

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by Alvin Flummux » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:32 am

It was pretty clearly explained that they were going to go to a world with facilities that they would use get a message out to the wider galaxy. The world was away from the course taken by the harried Resistance flotilla, so the First Order wouldn't necessarily notice the little transports making good their escape.

Holdo's hyperjump maneuver was a last moment counter-punch that was never a part of the original plan, so was not explained.

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by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:34 am

Alvin Flummux wrote:It was pretty clearly explained that they were going to go to a world with facilities that they would use get a message out to the wider galaxy. The world was away from the course taken by the harried Resistance flotilla, so the First Order wouldn't necessarily notice the little transports making good their escape.

Holdo's hyperjump maneuver was a last moment counter-punch that was never a part of the original plan, so was not explained.


I was talking about the fact that it was never explained to Poe or seemingly anyone on board until the last minute.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Alvin Flummux » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:40 am

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:It was pretty clearly explained that they were going to go to a world with facilities that they would use get a message out to the wider galaxy. The world was away from the course taken by the harried Resistance flotilla, so the First Order wouldn't necessarily notice the little transports making good their escape.

Holdo's hyperjump maneuver was a last moment counter-punch that was never a part of the original plan, so was not explained.


I was talking about the fact that it was never explained to Poe or seemingly anyone on board until the last minute.


Is it standard protocol for admirals to reveal sensitive on-the-fly military plans to rebellious pilots who have made a habit of needlessly ruining good plans? ;)

As one of the tweet commenters said, maybe they were going to reveal the plan, but got interrupted? I've only seen it once so I can't be 100% sure on that one.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by The Watching Artist » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:48 am

Alvin Flummux wrote:but got interrupted?

They spend hours and hours being chased. Enough time for Finn to strawberry float off and come back. I'm sure they had the time to get in a game of monopoly let alone tell Poe a plan.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Alvin Flummux » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:58 am

The Watching Artist wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:but got interrupted?

They spend hours and hours being chased. Enough time for Finn to strawberry float off and come back. I'm sure they had the time to get in a game of monopoly let alone tell Poe a plan.


Well, maybe, but we don't know when that part of the plan was finalized. We won't until the novelization releases.

Also, Poe isn't great at keeping things to himself - he's rash and impulsive, and if it was figured out early, then they might've figured that telling him and others before the plan was unfolding was a risk too great to take.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by lex-man » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:32 am

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Errkal wrote:
gamerforever wrote:They should have kept the same director for all 3 and written the trilogy at one time.

This.

What I wouldn't have given for a JJ hat trick of wonder and joy :wub:.


I get why you'd want this but wouldn't giving the whole trilogy to JJ lead to three movies of riddles followed by no pay off.

That said I agree that Disney should have plotted out some kind of story before undertaking making the movie.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by gamerforever » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:38 am

Well better no pay off than literally no pay off from the last film with such crap answers such as reys parents and snokes end. I do believe kylo lied to her however.


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