^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^

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The Watching Artist
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by The Watching Artist » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:29 pm

Lucien wrote:You might like this video. It's 27 minutes long though.


Thanks for this. I ended up staying up way too late watching his vids on TLJ. The one about the rot in the tree is something I've worried about since they said Lucas wouldn't be involved. The whole saga lacks a singular voice and a reason for existing now.
DML wrote:Also I felt Finn was a bit wasted, hes got the potential to be the most interesting character in the new trilogy but he never really had any tough decisions to make.

They messed him up from the very beginning by not committing to the "he was a stormtrooper" idea. Instead making him some kind of bumbling idiot who gets sent on an important mission despite obviously being inept. He should have arrived on Jakku with a mop and a bucket as it would have been more fitting for his role in the First Order.

I would have had him as a special operative under Captain Phasma. A specially trained spy officer type. He would have been responsible for finding out the bloke on Jakku had the map. He would help Poe leave so he could follow him to BB8 (a twist on letting the Falcon go in ep4). He is the one that lets the First Order know they have arrived at butthole eyes castle. Later on it turns out one of the planets thats destroyed by Starkiller base is his home (so we have an actual emotional connection for one of the nameless planets that go bang bang) from here he doubts the true motivation of the First Order (Starkiller could have been a deterrent) and the rest of the film he confronts this. When he meets Phasma later its him coming face to face with the people responsible for the loss of his home. This also gives Phasma more to do as she tries to keep him on their side. She could even reveal that he is a spy to his new chums. His motivation to get to Starkiller base is to face them and work out in his head what he should truly do. Of course in the end he gets some redemption by aiding the Resistance.

Han doesn't tell him to "bring it down now"
Hime wrote:It would have worked if they'd abandoned the stupid hyperspace tracker stuff and had a mole on the ship.

This then becomes something for Finn with actual tension and not contrived boring shite. He is obviously the number one suspect but takes the responsibility to track down the real mole.

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by The Watching Artist » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:48 pm

Qikzen wrote:You've ignored the fact that Luke saw a glimpse of Ben's future and in that future he knows that he would be evil and there was nothing he could do to stop it. That's why he thought of killing him, but then when he realised the future is never set in stone and that's when he stops, but by then it's too late.

Ben see's Luke as someone who has betrayed him and whatever good he had left he lost at that moment. Any trust he once had was gone.

Yoda: Control! Control! You must learn control!
Luke Skywalker: I saw... I saw a city in the clouds.
Yoda: Hmm. Friends you have there.
Luke Skywalker: They were in pain!
Yoda: It is the future you see.
Luke Skywalker: The future? Will they die?
Yoda: Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.

Luke knows Ben for sure will be evil and he cant stop it despite also knowing that the future is in motion. :?: We are talking about the guy who gave his life up to prove Vader could still be good and he was the 2nd most evil entity in the galaxy. :lol:

Why is Ben even evil? Let alone so irredeemably evil that Luke should be tempted to strawberry floating murder him in his sleep.

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by Alvin Flummux » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:41 pm

The Watching Artist wrote:Why is Ben even evil? Let alone so irredeemably evil that Luke should be tempted to strawberry floating murder him in his sleep.


Snoke, as we saw in TLJ, has the ability to enter the mind of any sufficiently untrained force user, from a strawberry floating long way away. More than likely he had been worming his way into Ben's mind for a very long time, planting dark seeds, very dark thoughts in the head of a vulnerable young boy.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Ste » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:10 pm

I went to see this today.

On leaving overall I'd say I probably felt postive but it was the first SW film Ive seen at the cinema were during it at times I was thinking "I'm not sure about this" - and I went to see PM & AOTC!

Right now Im thinking there was a lot of really good things about it but also things that I think will irritate the more you watch.

Postives:
The start of the film
The humour
I think Kylo Ren is a great character
Rey/Kylo scences generally good but maybe too close to ESB and ROTJ stuff
Didnt have an issue with Luke and thought his last scenes were great.

The main negatives for me was the whole Rebel Alliance story bit. I think there were a lot of issues with this that will only become more apparent the more you watch it.

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by evanswolves » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:39 pm

Also got round to watching this today, really enjoyed it, the humour was great :lol:

Couple of scenes though, yikes, the whole code breaker thing was just frigging daft, the escape from prison and riding those things, strawberry floating hell

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by FatDaz » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:23 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
captain red dog wrote:A lot of the people in here sound like they are hopelessly defending this film, rather much in the same way I'll defend Phantom Menace until my dying days! :oops: :shifty:


I’m still not sure if I liked The Last Jedi or not. I’m not the biggest Star Wars fan though so I’m not fussed if it was good or bad.

I just find some of the hate for it amusing. Luke’s personality changed over the 30 years since we last saw him? How outrageous that somebody at 60 might be different to how they were at 30. :lol:

I think it's more than that, the entire reason from him going from how he was in the original series to how he was in this film just didn't make sense.

He wouldn't kill Vader in ROTJ despite his crimes and genocide, but wanted to murder Kylo, his own nephew, practically a child, because he had bad thoughts. I can get over them making him grumpy, but turning him into a complete coward and refusing to defend billions of lives is completely removed from the character.

I think the major problem with Star Wars at the moment is that nobody has a long term plan for the story. I think JJ Abrams could potentially rectify things when he returns for the finale, but the problem with JJ is that he has extremely bad form finding a suitable ending for his films.


They need some one like Kevin Fiege in MCU, someone to paint the broad strokes and arc out where it's going. This felt like the director hated what JJ tried to start and so made his best efforts to change direction and plot threads. As a result it felt standalone to me and not a continuation of an epic trilogy.

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by Floex » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:24 pm

FInally got round to watching this, not even being that much of a Star Wars fanboy it left me scratching my head in so many parts.

-Luke being an utter geek. He’s the friggin Last Jedi and his bumbling around and milking teats in such a strange way.
- The ‘comedy’. Comedy is subjective but it just felt like a bad Joss Weldon script and his jokes are bad enough.
-Finn being utterly wasted. I get they wanted to move away from Rey and for him to care more about helping the rebels but Christ that whole plot line was just a throwaway. Nothing they did had any impact on the story, nothing progressed his character. Rose as a character made no sense. “Love will win”, what?
-Captain Phasma, such a shame her story was underdeveloped. There must be a reason for her to be a silver stormtrooper outfit, atleast hint at why she is in the position she’s in. Nope, dead. It just screamed we have no idea what we’re doing
- Snoke, Dead. I mean the one villain that had a impact to the story, someone the audience can despise, gone.
- Hux being reduced to a buffoon
- no character growth to Kylo, he’s still the same adolescent he was in the first film. It was understandably in the first, he met his match in Rey, he needed to refocus and come back stronger. Nope, you’ve now got two bumbling idiots who pose no threat.

There were two interesting plot points, one of the selling of weaponry for profit. What we got was a bunch of horses escaping.

The other, which imo, had the potential to shakeup the Star Wars story for the better. Kylo trying to convince Rey, to not only destroy the rebel’s but the Sith as well. That is such a fascinating take on where the franchise could go. To move away from the story that seemingly has no scope for world building, that has been exhausted now.

The more I think about the movie the more mediocre it becomes. Like Fatdaz above, this didn’t feel like the middle section of trilogy, a stand-alone movie where the story didn’t progress from start to finish.

Last edited by Floex on Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Alvin Flummux » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:03 pm

Floex wrote:-Luke being an utter geek.




:datass:

Floex wrote:He’s the friggin Last Jedi and his bumbling around and milking teats in such a strange way.


Gotta keep them bones strong.


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by OrangeRakoon » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:31 am

aayl1 wrote:Star wars thoughts


Nailed it, agree with it all

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by The Watching Artist » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:21 am

Alvin Flummux wrote:
The Watching Artist wrote:Why is Ben even evil? Let alone so irredeemably evil that Luke should be tempted to strawberry floating murder him in his sleep.


Snoke, as we saw in TLJ, has the ability to enter the mind of any sufficiently untrained force user, from a strawberry floating long way away. More than likely he had been worming his way into Ben's mind for a very long time, planting dark seeds, very dark thoughts in the head of a vulnerable young boy.

So a giant cop out.

Sorry. I don't think any explanation is going to change how I feel about this. Just cant buy into the idea that Luke could see hope and goodness in Vader. A man at the top of the Empire, who has ruled with fear and violence for decades. Committed genocide. Murdered children. Tortured people. But then think a young man who's only issue is some bad thoughts needs to be killed in his sleep. And this is AFTER he was proved right to have hope in RotJ. Its so strawberry floating ridiculous.
aayl1 wrote:Also also, the more I think about it, the more I feel HoloLuke was pointless. If you were going to kill off Luke have him die in person, a la Obi Want and Vader. It'd be much more poignant a scene. The reveal that he was a force hologram just felt like a twist for the sake of it, with him dying afterwards.

I think it matters. He prevents Kylo from killing him. Stops his nephew from taking another step forward to the dark side.
Floex wrote:The other, which imo, had the potential to shakeup the Star Wars story for the better. Kylo trying to convince Rey, to not only destroy the rebel’s but the Sith as well. That is such a fascinating take on where the franchise could go. To move away from the story that seemingly has no scope for world building, that has been exhausted now.

Actually I think this is exactly the same as ESB. Vader offers Luke the chance to join him to rule as father and son. Having said that the Emperor knows Luke can destroy him. https://youtu.be/lhX5V-wICuw?t=344

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by OrangeRakoon » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:18 am

It seems strange to get hung up on Luke trying to murder Ben when he thought about it only very briefly then immediately realised it was the wrong thing to do (according to the way he told it). So he never would have anyway

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by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:52 pm

OrangeReindeer wrote:It seems strange to get hung up on Luke trying to murder Ben when he thought about it only very briefly then immediately realised it was the wrong thing to do (according to the way he told it). So he never would have anyway


Indeed. I don’t get the hang up about it. Some people are talking as though they know him personally and he could never do such a thing like he’s a close personal friend :lol:

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by Dowbocop » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:59 pm

https://www.jetpunk.com/quizzes/star-wa ... creen-time

Interesting quiz I found when researching a point I wanted to make - we all think we know Luke so well, but we've actually only got a small evidence base from the films to base our assertions on. The source url is broken so I can't verify the data, but it seems plausible. Another site had him at nearly four hours of screen time in the original trilogy - I thought that was way off...

14/20 by the way (and the thread's derailed...)

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by Qikz » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:12 pm

I got 18/20. Forgot 2 obvious characters haha

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by Fade » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:27 pm

I didn't like this

It felt like a marvel film, not a star wars film, too many jokes, not everyone needs to be Tony Stark or Thor

And you could cut out around half of the scenes in the movie and have it have little to no impact on the story. The whole code breaker sub plot just felt like filler. And why Mrs Puprle Hair didn't tell Po her plan didn't make any sense. Too many plot holes and lazy plot devices, felt like Dr Who at times "Hur dur space magic"

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by Karl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:30 pm

I mean, it is a film about space magic, to be fair.

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by The Watching Artist » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:44 pm

Dowbocop wrote:https://www.jetpunk.com/quizzes/star-wars-characters-by-screen-time

Interesting quiz I found when researching a point I wanted to make - we all think we know Luke so well, but we've actually only got a small evidence base from the films to base our assertions on. The source url is broken so I can't verify the data, but it seems plausible. Another site had him at nearly four hours of screen time in the original trilogy - I thought that was way off...

14/20 by the way (and the thread's derailed...)

The Emperor only has about 45mins of screen time. He might not be evil he might be giving money to charity and running a soup kitchen to feed the hungry. He probably enjoys walks in the park, smelling flowers and walking his dogs Mace and Annie.

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by Frank » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:08 pm

Saw it again in IMAX today. I think the biggest sign of Marvel-ness is that very last scene. It feels like they wanted it as a post-credits scene but they were like “mate, it’s star wars. We don’t do post-credit scenes”.

I don’t get why you’ve got all these new spaceships when they aren’t as good as what came before, too. The Resistance Bombers are too slow and cumbersome to really be any good in that bombing run at the start - What happened to the Y-Wings and B-Wings? They had smaller payloads but at least they might not have all been wiped out.

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by Dowbocop » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:13 pm

The Watching Artist wrote:
Dowbocop wrote:https://www.jetpunk.com/quizzes/star-wars-characters-by-screen-time

Interesting quiz I found when researching a point I wanted to make - we all think we know Luke so well, but we've actually only got a small evidence base from the films to base our assertions on. The source url is broken so I can't verify the data, but it seems plausible. Another site had him at nearly four hours of screen time in the original trilogy - I thought that was way off...

14/20 by the way (and the thread's derailed...)

The Emperor only has about 45mins of screen time. He might not be evil he might be giving money to charity and running a soup kitchen to feed the hungry. He probably enjoys walks in the park, smelling flowers and walking his dogs Mace and Annie.

Palpatine spends the entirety of the films being either duplicitously benevolent or outright evil. All you're being asked to believe is that Luke could see evil rising in Kylo and was tempted for a split second to stop it there and then. Like he was tempted in ROTJ to try to strike down the Emperor, and then when he comes within a whisker of killing Vader. It's not out of character - it happens twice in the original trilogy!

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by evanswolves » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:14 pm

I forgot all about flying Leia :dread: :dread: :dread:


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