^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^

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gamerforever
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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by gamerforever » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:52 pm

Disappointed by how Luke was dealt with in this film and although the film was decent, it just lacked substance....its like they deliberately dumbed down the story to appeal to the new generation etc etc

I highly doubt snoke is dead and appears to even preempt Kylo's actions before he was killed....he mentioned how kylo will turn the lightsaber and kill his true enemy. Kylo as the main enemy just isn't good enough....he's too much of a comedy villain and hux is even worse!

JJ Abrams should have overseen this one and I reckon he will sort out the mess that has been created.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:53 pm

It's heavily implied the Knights of Ren are Luke's remaining students that Kylo absconded with rather than killed.

It's so interesting how much this film has divided people. Almost all of Preezy's points of criticism are things I enjoyed about the film. I saw it for a second time recently and that showing convinced me this is one of my favourite Star Wars. There wasn't a single section that failed to hit for me, with everything tying back to the overarching themes of either the film in general or the myriad character arcs that the film revolves around. Like Empire, it took chances with the franchise and dared to try and take it in a new and exciting direction. For me, it did this almost entirely successfully.

TESB>TLJ>ANH>TFA>ROTJ

EDIT:

gamerforever wrote:I highly doubt snoke is dead and appears to even preempt Kylo's actions before he was killed....he mentioned how kylo will turn the lightsaber and kill his true enemy. Kylo as the main enemy just isn't good enough....he's too much of a comedy villain and hux is even worse!


strawberry floating hell :slol:

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Goat wrote:Guy probably decided not to show up because he heard Taffy was a Cow-exploding fantasist mentalist.

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Preezy
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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Preezy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:55 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:There wasn't a single section that failed to hit for me, with everything tying back to the overarching themes of either the film in general or the myriad of character arcs that the film revolves around.

Even the dire casino-planet section? That was the most give-them-something-to-do-filler I've seen in a long time.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:57 pm

As someone on twitter pointed out, just because the characters embark on a plan that fails does not mean that plotline was meaningless. That whole section is a learning curve for Finn and a muddying of the notoriously Black vs White world view of the Star Wars universe. The casino plotline was a great way to demonstrate this new greyness while forcing Finn to finally take a side. Also, I just enjoyed it as a piece of cinema.

Goat wrote:Guy probably decided not to show up because he heard Taffy was a Cow-exploding fantasist mentalist.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Preezy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:03 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:As someone on twitter pointed out, just because the characters embark on a plan that fails does not mean that plotline was meaningless. That whole section is a learning curve for Finn and a muddying of the notoriously Black vs White world view of the Star Wars universe.

You mean because the codebreaker showed them that the rebels also buy weapons? I loved the bit after that where Finn took what he'd learned and discussed it with the other key characters afterwards and showed that it had had an impact on him.

edit: sorry hadn't seen your edit - he'd already taken a side when he'd abandoned the First Order :lol:

Last edited by Preezy on Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Watching Artist
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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by The Watching Artist » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:03 pm

Preezy wrote:
The Watching Artist wrote:
Preezy wrote:The First Order wouldn't have known they were heading to the Rebel planet if Finn and Rose hadn't been captured and sold out by the codebreaker. That was the whole point. It was a secret evacuation and their actions exposed that.

They were heading towards a Rebel planet. I'm sure even the First Order could work that one out. Oh wait, maybe not with Hux in charge.

No it was explicitly said that the planet was off their course and the ships would fly past them, not at or over them.

Yeah because that part of space must have been chock full of planets that would have confused the first order. Let alone lots of planets that had old bases on it. I'm being a pedantic dick over this anyway. :wub:
Preezy wrote:I think one of the biggest problems with the film is that......... there's no overarching plan to these films and it really shows.

This and the entire basic concept of the film makes no sense. If a spaceship runs out of fuel it wont slow down or stop. It will keep going at the speed it was traveling because there is no air resistance or gravity to slow it down. Its not high concept sci-fi either. :lol:

Same shite with the bombers at the beginning or when they open the door for Mary Poppins. And obviously the whole Mary Poppins thing full stop.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Ad7 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:03 pm

That could be a way to get ren back in the mask. Meet up with that lot.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Preezy wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:As someone on twitter pointed out, just because the characters embark on a plan that fails does not mean that plotline was meaningless. That whole section is a learning curve for Finn and a muddying of the notoriously Black vs White world view of the Star Wars universe.

You mean because the codebreaker showed them that the rebels also buy weapons? I loved the bit after that where Finn took what he'd learned and discussed it with the other key characters afterwards and showed that it had had an impact on him.

edit: sorry hadn't seen your edit - he'd already taken a side when he'd abandoned the First Order :lol:


I don't understand the bit I've bolded. Is it sarcastic? Genuine question.

As for sides, nope. He abandoned the New Order because he wasn't a soldier. He claimed to be part of the Resistence to escape the New Order. When he actually got the chance to join the Resistence for real he bailed. The only reason he then joined the assault on Starkiller was to get Rey back. At the start of TLJ he, as he always planned to, bailed again to search for Rey. His actions until the Casino were entirely self-centred, or focused on saving one person (then abandoning the Resistance with her in tow).

His arc in TLJ is the discovery that although there is ambiguity and apathy in the universe, he embodies neither. He realises there is a cause he should be fighting for, not bailing from. That's why his "Rebel scum" line is so important: it's him finally taking a side.

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Goat wrote:Guy probably decided not to show up because he heard Taffy was a Cow-exploding fantasist mentalist.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Hexx » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:11 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:the notoriously Black vs White world view of the Star Wars universe.


Well someone's not been paying attention

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"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"

etc etc

:roll:

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:11 pm

Oh strawberry float, that is not a crawl that has aged well!

Goat wrote:Guy probably decided not to show up because he heard Taffy was a Cow-exploding fantasist mentalist.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Riksilver » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:12 pm

One way of handling Knights of Ren and explaining their absence so far would be that till now they've been handling other missions for Snoke, now that he's dead and Kylo's embarrassed himself on Crait on his first day as Supreme Leader they come back and start trying to subvert/usurp him. Then the urgency for whatever new Resistance has formed by Ep IX comes when one of the Knights of Ren makes a move against Kylo and the First Order turns on itself, they decide it's the best time to strike and topple them while they're divided/disoriented (and gives an excuse to explore the Kylo/Rey frenemy dynamic again if they have a threeway fight vs one of the Knights).

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Preezy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:13 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:His arc in TLJ is the discovery that although there is ambiguity and apathy in the universe, he embodies neither. He realises there is a cause he should be fighting for, not bailing from. That's why his "Rebel scum" line is so important: it's him finally taking a side.

What a shame it's delivered poorly during a crap fight sequence against an under-utilised character.

You make good points though.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:17 pm

Preezy wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:His arc in TLJ is the discovery that although there is ambiguity and apathy in the universe, he embodies neither. He realises there is a cause he should be fighting for, not bailing from. That's why his "Rebel scum" line is so important: it's him finally taking a side.

What a shame it's delivered poorly during a crap fight sequence against an under-utilised character.

You make good points though.


Phasma was deffo underused, I'll give you that. I have a feeling she had a larger part in previous drafts that was cut down to focus on more important arcs.

I understand why people didn't like it. It's a Star Wars unlike any other. But like I said, so was Empire when it was released. It took a well imagined but rather hammy universe and added depth and darkness. TLJ took a hammy reimagining of that first film and went fully off road. It intentionally built up Star Wars tropes, the evil emperor, the villain with a hidden heart, the hero chosen by destiny, and slowly and intentionally turned them on their heads while acknowledging exactly what it was doing as it was doing it.

"This isn't going to go the way you think it is"

I strawberry floating loved it.

Goat wrote:Guy probably decided not to show up because he heard Taffy was a Cow-exploding fantasist mentalist.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Preezy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:18 pm

Well, I guess there's no accounting for taste ;)

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by Tafdolphin » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:19 pm

Or, you know, desperately wanting to see the same thing over and over ;)

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Preezy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:19 pm

For the record, I didn't hate it, I'm just not able to ignore its myriad faults.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:22 pm

It was messy. It has some pacing issues and tended to jump around a lot. It's not perfect. I still think it's exactly the film it wanted to be: a radical shift for the franchise and one that dared to challenge long held and rather stale traditions that had become the hallmark of that universe.

Goat wrote:Guy probably decided not to show up because he heard Taffy was a Cow-exploding fantasist mentalist.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Preezy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:22 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Or, you know, desperately wanting to see the same thing over and over ;)

Far from it, I really enjoyed Rogue One as it was a very different Star Wars film. Honestly, I'd rather they stopped making them altogether for a decade or two, but Disney spent all this money so they've got to earn it back.

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by Moggy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:18 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Or, you know, desperately wanting to see the same thing over and over ;)


The Force Awakens: WAAAH IT’S BASICALLY A REMAKE, GIVE US SOMETHING NEW!

The Last Jedi: WAAAH WHY IS EVERYTHING DIFFERENT!

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PostRe: ^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^
by FatDaz » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:44 pm

It’s probably the star wars film I’m most conflicted about. Loved it while watching it but afterwards I’m really starting to pick it apart like no other film. I’m usually pretty quick to solidify an opinion but this one I just don’t know. Will probably have to watch again when it comes to Blu-ray. Until then I’m left with disappointment at lost opportunities and unanswered questions.


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