^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
Skippy
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by Skippy » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:38 am

Skarjo wrote:I think my biggest gripe though was that, given that it's presumably the big bridge movie between TFA and whatever the third film is... nothing actually changed. Every character is pretty much exactly where they were at the start of the film. None of them had their circumstances change or progress or develop.


Poe had the most obvious arc. He went from trigger-happy pilot to someone willing to retreat and save lives rather than fight, setting him up for a leadership role.

Finn's hero arc was properly fulfilled here. In the first movie, and as illustrated early on in this one, he only wanted to protect himself and Rey. He lied about being able to destroy Starkiller Base and didn't seem worried about saving anyone other than Rey. There was a significant element of self-preservation to Finn, but by the end of TLJ he's willing to sacrifice himself to save what's left of the Resistance.

Rey's arc is more slight I'll admit, but as the hero of this whole trilogy this is just the middle chapter of a longer arc. She goes from desperately wanting Luke to be a parental figure to admitting the truth about her parentage and standing alone, more confidently, as part of the Resistance. She also learns more about the force, the dark side (through better understanding Kylo Ren, who she starts calling Ben by the end) and the conflict inside her. At the beginning she doesn't understand Luke's point of view because she has this black and white view of morality, by the end she better understands what Luke was saying.

Kylo Ren stepped out of the shadow of these parental figures. He grew up with his parents as war heroes who eventually drove him away, and thought killing Han would bring him peace. Here he kills Snoke, an adoptive father figure, and assumes his title to fully take control and come of age as it were. In case of both Rey and Kylo the film is about them maturing and taking control of their own destinies.

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by Skarjo » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:42 am

Also did I just imagine it or did the little kid at the end use to force to grab the broom?

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by Mafro » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:52 am

Skarjo wrote:Also did I just imagine it or did the little kid at the end use to force to grab the broom?

That's what I thought too.

Thought that was a really dumb way of ending the film too.

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captain red dog
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by captain red dog » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:12 am

christmasforever wrote:I feel the two new star wars have been dumbed down considerably and they wanted to get rid of the past characters, likely due to cost reasons ratger than anything else.

Snoke being killed and the lack of a back story makes his importance even less so in a force awakens.

Kylo is still not the main enemy, not from his actibg anyway! He is anything but intimidating.

It seems as though disney want the star wars saga to last many years, so had to break free from the old storyline, but the new characters just aren’t strong enough apart from poe and finn, who i think acted great.

Lets see how the final film turns out. I don’t think it will be a straight rei vs ren battle.

Yep, they need to move to more disposable trilogies so that they can pump out regular films without tying the cast into long contracts or having to worry about continuity.

Disney paid so much for the franchise that it makes it inevitable. That's why there has been a huge shift away from the Skywalker story in the main saga, and why they aren't pushing a back story for characters like Snoke and Rey.

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by Jamo3103 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:45 am

Saw it for the second time last night and absolutely loved it, some of the flaws I found it in the first time are still very much apparent, others were perhaps nitpicking. Regardless, I found them easier to overlook and actually appreciated what the film actually did well a lot more. It also struck me more this time what a beautifully shot film it is, it is gorgeous to look at.

I still have mixed feelings on the way they handled Luke's death but I can at least appreciate why they went that direction, Snoke felt very much a wasted opportunity on the first viewing but this time around I felt it worked perfectly. Snoke's taunting of Kylo early on for not being able to live up to Vader set up brilliantly how Kylo managed to do what Vader didn't and destroy his master in order to become the leader himself. Of course we all know Vader killed the Emperor but the circumstances were very different.

Really excited to see where they take Episode IX after this!

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Hexx
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by Hexx » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:58 am

Poe's Arc

1) Get 100s of people killed for a Pyrrhic victory in an unneeded conflict
2) Mans plain some stuff to a women in authority (just after being demoted for point (1))
3) Get 100s of people killed by torpedoing a plan that would have worked
4) Backs against the wall, last stand moment. "Wait let's not go on suicide run...I have no other plan but..."
5) Everyone goes "Yep this guys our leader!"

He has 3 plans in the film

Plan A) Achieves it's goal, but gets many killed for a token victory
Plan B) Fails spectacularly on it's own objective. Fails SO spectacularly it strawberry floats up Holdo's plan and gets many killed, and nearly wipes out the Rebellion
Plan C) Probably suicidal during their last stand, but well else can they do? Oh let's call it off and go wait for a miracle to happen.


Terrible terrible arc.

It's almost as bad as the ending. "We destroyed Star Killer base, a dreadnought and Snoke's flagship....but no one in the Galaxy will come help us"
to
"The Rebels inspire everyone"

Such a turnabout I got whiplash...

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by gamerforever » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:22 am

Jamo3103 wrote:Saw it for the second time last night and absolutely loved it, some of the flaws I found it in the first time are still very much apparent, others were perhaps nitpicking. Regardless, I found them easier to overlook and actually appreciated what the film actually did well a lot more. It also struck me more this time what a beautifully shot film it is, it is gorgeous to look at.

I still have mixed feelings on the way they handled Luke's death but I can at least appreciate why they went that direction, Snoke felt very much a wasted opportunity on the first viewing but this time around I felt it worked perfectly. Snoke's taunting of Kylo early on for not being able to live up to Vader set up brilliantly how Kylo managed to do what Vader didn't and destroy his master in order to become the leader himself. Of course we all know Vader killed the Emperor but the circumstances were very different.

Really excited to see where they take Episode IX after this!


I don't think the next film will end this story somehow, but I do hope it brings some strong characters and allows them to continue into the next trilogy.

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by Skippy » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:47 am

This is a brilliant write-up and absolutely bang on

twitter.com/slashfilm/status/941759904108425218


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captain red dog
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by captain red dog » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:00 am

Hexx wrote:Poe's Arc

1) Get 100s of people killed for a Pyrrhic victory in an unneeded conflict
2) Mans plain some stuff to a women in authority (just after being demoted for point (1))
3) Get 100s of people killed by torpedoing a plan that would have worked
4) Backs against the wall, last stand moment. "Wait let's not go on suicide run...I have no other plan but..."
5) Everyone goes "Yep this guys our leader!"

He has 3 plans in the film

Plan A) Achieves it's goal, but gets many killed for a token victory
Plan B) Fails spectacularly on it's own objective. Fails SO spectacularly it strawberry floats up Holdo's plan and gets many killed, and nearly wipes out the Rebellion
Plan C) Probably suicidal during their last stand, but well else can they do? Oh let's call it off and go wait for a miracle to happen.


Terrible terrible arc.

It's almost as bad as the ending. "We destroyed Star Killer base, a dreadnought and Snoke's flagship....but no one in the Galaxy will come help us"
to
"The Rebels inspire everyone"

Such a turnabout I got whiplash...

Point 2 I blame Haldo for. If she just explained her plan it would have saved us all the god awful casino bit! :lol:

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Hexx
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by Hexx » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 am

captain red dog wrote:Point 2 I blame Haldo for. If she just explained her plan it would have saved us all the god awful casino bit! :lol:


She had no reason to explain plan to a demoted Captain (chain of command) and as far as she knew, there was possibly a traitor on board (how where they tracking through hyperspace?)

Poe's a monster.

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Hexx
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by Hexx » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:15 am

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade wrote:
Skippy wrote:This is a brilliant write-up and absolutely bang on

twitter.com/slashfilm/status/941759904108425218



A great write up, and thanks to it for confirming

"This Yoda (once again depicted with a physical puppet after years of being a CGI creation)"


i strawberry floating knew that was a puppet, but saw people complaining about the "Yoda CGI" :lol: I was like "Theres no strawberry floating way that was CGI" :lol:


He was glowing blue and translucent :roll:

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by Mafro » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:24 am

How could people thing that Yoda was CGI?!

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by jiggles » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:46 am

Now that it's had the weekend to stew, I think what I like about the film isn't necessarily what it is, but what it means.

Every expectation I had was dead wrong, and the novelty and surprise of that may have carried the movie (because there was some real hokey gooseberry fool in there). I'll not know for sure until repeat viewings.

But it was immensely refreshing to see the middle entry of a trilogy not be all preamble. No cliffhanger ending, no unanswered questions. While The Force Awakens was the link between the previous trilogy and this one, The Last Jedi took every opportunity to close the book on the past. All of the films have been obsessively focused on the original trilogy. Everything revolved around that story from 40 years ago. Everything needs a link to those characters to mean something. But rather than perpetuate that, and make a movie that sets up all the showdowns and revelations that fans want, Johnson made a transitional movie that pulls Star Wars into a new era. People are only human, not everything is black and white, and reckless blind "heroism" is strawberry floating dumb. It's time to grow up and move on.

Before The Last Jedi, Star Wars could only be what it always was. Now, it can be anything. And that's immensely exciting.

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by abcd » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:37 pm

I still haven't decided how I feel about the film.

It had some amazing scenes, but they haven't yet gelled.

One of slight gripes was the scene when Luke gets blue/green milk straight from the tits of some cow/elephant thing and just looks at Rey as if "yeah, this is my life now. I'm milking it while I can"

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by Roonmastor » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:47 pm

Tell Karl his brother is dead wrote:
Godzilla wrote:The light speed crash was amazing, though ruined by one bloke in the cinems saying "ouchhhhh" in the silence that followed.

A kid behind us went "OH... MY... GOD... SO COOL!!!" during that silence. :lol: :fp: Totally destroyed the poignancy of the scene (but it was pretty funny).

A lady in my viewing just burst out into hysterical laughing. Totally ruined probably the best moment of the movie!

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by Cuttooth » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 pm

Just seen it. What a weird film. :lol:

Decent and maybe better than TFA but still suffers from the too contemporary dialogue Nu Star Wars has. For his many faults as a storyteller George Lucas was able to make Star Wars feel like a proper otherworldly sci-fi fantasy story. These films almost feel like parodies or odd fan made films at points.

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by Frank » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:33 pm

Gonna read back through the thread now. Oh my god is it good :wub:

Knew something was up at the end when Luke turned up with the same lightsabre that Rey and Kylo had just ripped in half

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captain red dog
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by captain red dog » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:42 pm

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade wrote:
Skippy wrote:This is a brilliant write-up and absolutely bang on

twitter.com/slashfilm/status/941759904108425218



A great write up, and thanks to it for confirming

"This Yoda (once again depicted with a physical puppet after years of being a CGI creation)"


i strawberry floating knew that was a puppet, but saw people complaining about the "Yoda CGI" :lol: I was like "Theres no strawberry floating way that was CGI" :lol:

The Yoda CGI from episode 2 and 3 and remastered in Episode 1 was absolutely spot on. It was silly to go back to a physical puppet and it looked weird as a result. Not as weird as the original Episode 1 puppet though.

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by Tomous » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:14 pm

I thought they made the right decision with Yoda. Liked his down and B Pikachu attack on the tree too.

Last edited by Tomous on Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by SEP » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:31 pm

Well I strawberry floating loved it.

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