^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^

[Oblomov Boblomov]

The first half of the film and the Ewoks.

The first half of the film isn't anywhere close to being as bad as the casino in TLJ. The ewoks aren't as bad as the porgs, dog horses, sea cow or crystal foxes. They also didn't do anything as cringe as the BB8 controlling the AT-ST.

Yes it is and it goes on for over an hour as opposed to, what, 10 minutes?

The Ewoks are worse because they play a crucial part in defeating a large unit of futuristic soldiers. They literally do this with sticks and stones.

[OrangeRKN]

I like the ewoks

Never came across as too far-fetched that they fought against the Empire either. They are on their home turf, using traps and ambushes to counter a stronger and more advanced force. That's happened plenty in real life. If anything it shows the in-adaptability of the Empire, where shiny white uniforms might be good at intimidating conquered populations, but aren't great when you're fighting against camouflaged enemies in the woods.

[7256930752]

The first half of the film and the Ewoks.

The first half of the film isn't anywhere close to being as bad as the casino in TLJ. The ewoks aren't as bad as the porgs, dog horses, sea cow or crystal foxes. They also didn't do anything as cringe as the BB8 controlling the AT-ST.

Yes it is and it goes on for over an hour as opposed to, what, 10 minutes?

The Ewoks are worse because they play a crucial part in defeating a large unit of futuristic soldiers. They literally do this with sticks and stones.

But I don't know what is so bad about the opening of RoTJ . The casino bit was just one example of some of the extremely poor parts of TLJ, there is nothing to excuse the casino scene as they had the benefit of 15 years of critism levelled at the prequels to base their decisions on. I'd rather watch the extended scene singing bit in Jabba's palace every day for the rest my life than see the part with the little hairy thing putting coins in BB8 again.

I guess I can understand that issue with the Ewoks but I just don't find them as jarring as CG characters. They are shameless merchandise fodder but they do fit the setting of Endor well.

[7256930752]

I would have enjoyed it far more if it was BB8 controlling an AT-ST from a terminal.

Now you've said it, I'm disappointed this wasn't how it happened

The first half of the film isn't anywhere close to being as bad as the casino in TLJ.

What was wrong with the casino? I thought it was incredibly rushed, but the actual casino I thought was a good location. It was a Mos Eisely cantina for rich people

It's more that section than the casino itself but part of why I have enjoyed the newer films more than the sequels is that they fit aesthetically with 4-6. The casino is.The casino is peak Lucas prequels design.

[OrangeRKN]

You know what the casino would make?

A great level in Star Wars Bounty Hunter

[Alvin Flummux]

What if the new AT-STs were designed for droid pilots?

Did you get a good look at the AT-ST after its cab had been blown away? Didn't look like there was anything but a droid pilot socket in there.

[The Watching Artist]

Saw TLJ today. I thought it was mostly shite. A few really good bits and some half decent laughs (plenty that missed the mark or got in the way). Really underwhelmed by Snoke (seriously cant even begin to explain how much so) and Captain Noshow and plenty of the others tbh. Felt mostly bloated and unnecessary and often annoyingly contrived. Really overwritten as well. Finn going to Casino world seemed pointless. Could have been a decent location for a different story though. Dont even get me started on Poe and the purpled haired lady. An entire story about people not talking to each other when lives are at stake. Brilliant. What shite. I don't think it was helped by the fact I didn't think much of the set up of the previous outing. Bigging up the Reys parents mystery meant it was always going to be an anticlimax so obviously it was. But I suppose at least it was a half good kind of anticlimax. I feel like this was the correct outcome but it was still massively over sold before. The strongest thing continues to be Kylo Rens trying to be evil but is maybe actually not evil thread.

Not sure about Lukes stuff. I suspect this is the main point of all the "outrage" headlines that keep popping up. Its that or the bit with the tits. On one hand I can totally get behind part of old Luke hiding away. He hides in shame and it quite nicely mirrors Yoda going into exile after RotS but Yoda had hope that Luke and Leia would one day return. Luke just has nothing. So I'm fine with him wanting to end the Jedi and so on. What I cant take is the idea that Luke Skywalker could sit back and accept that billions of lives are lost when a mega new Death Star is made and one of his best buddies is murdered by his own son. The film seems to just tip toe around this. Luke runs away and allows a new evil to rise. I'm not sure I can take that. I certainly cant take the idea that even after all that he wont help Rey. That said I did like the way they managed to do the Obi-Wan death bit but in a new way.

So yeah. For the most part I didn't really like this. But it was way more interesting then The Bland Awakens.

Also can the ginger guy strawberry float off please. I thought he was just about ok in TBA but within about 30 secs of this I found him intolerably over the top.

[Kanbei]

Just got back from watching it.

It is very different to what I was expecting, think I need to watch it again before I fully make up my mind!

[Moggy]

Also, does anyone remember that loads of people said that RotS was better than Jedi when it was released (on here anyway)?

RotS released 2005.

GRcade founded 2008.



I watched TLJ today. Hmmm, not really sure what I think. I liked most of it, but overall felt unimpressed. I’m going to avoid rating it for now until I decide what I actually think of it.

[Cheeky Devlin]

I think it's telling that after a week I'd seen TFA three times, whereas I really can't be bothered going to see this one again.

I'd hoped that I'd get happier with it as I've had more time to digest it, but there's just so much of it that doesn't sit right with me.

Rey's origin, was an interesting turn to take, but after all the build-up and teasing in TFA I'm left wondering what the point of it all was. So many people saying it's a middle-finger to fans that are trying to figure out who she was. Yeah there were those fans, but when TFA basically posed those questions I don't think it's a good idea to go "Psyke! She was no-one all along! Nerds!"

I still have fundamental problems with Luke and Kylo's backstory. It just doesn't work with the character as I know him. I've no problem with him being a grumpy, isolated hermit who's cut himself off from the force, but that whole "murder in the night" element was just wrong. If they want that to be believable they needed to do a hell of a lot more background beyond "I was training some Jedi. Kylo was going to turn bad so I decided to murder him".

Casino section didn't really bother me. What did bother me was that if you removed the aliens and droids it could easily have been a set from a Bond movie. Black suits and ties? Say what you like about the prequels, but the Opera house scene with Anakin and Palpatine gave some idea what the rich and powerful wore. As it was it just looked too earth-like.

Poe's "arc" on the ship was bollocks as well and totally negated the point of Finn and Rose's trip in the first place.

Lightspeed battering ram was a cool visual, but as with someone earlier, I also wondered why they've never used that tactic before if it's so deadly. "We need to take out this massively armoured section on Starkiller base. Shall we create an elaborate, tricky attack with X-Wings that will cost us a lot of pilots and might not even succeed? Nah, just shoot a ship at it at light speed, that'll do the trick." That's a nit-pick though and it's so easy to look at other parts of the series where they could/should have done that in hindsight.

Then there was the "humour".
Star Wars has always had it's jokes and it's funny sections, but the humour here was tonally so far off the mark. Poe's "conversation" with Hux was cringeworthy, Luke throwing away the lightsaber, Finn wandering around with the bacta-suit squirting all over the place. I'm sure there was more but my god it was awful.

In a lot of ways I felt it was just really disrespectful of what's came before it. I get that it was about clearing the slate and getting ready to move on, which I'm happy for them to do, I just don't really like some of how they've carried it out.

I like the actual story that they're telling and I did enjoy TLJ overall though, despite some of the big issues I have with it. I'm interested to see what's next and for once I don't have a clue how they move on from this.

[Oblomov Boblomov]

More truth bombs.

The Force Awakens supremacy.

[Moggy]

More truth bombs.

The Force Awakens supremacy.

TFA seemed to be loved at first and then was very quickly panned. It’ll be interesting if opinion of TLJ gets better or worse over the next couple of months.

[Moggy]

twitter.com/sequelmemes/status/944374254556020736

[KingK]

Also, does anyone remember that loads of people said that RotS was better than Jedi when it was released (on here anyway)?

RotS released 2005.

GRcade founded 2008.

You do know that a lot of us on here have been 'here' since 2000 or so when we were Gamesradar?

[Moggy]

Also, does anyone remember that loads of people said that RotS was better than Jedi when it was released (on here anyway)?

RotS released 2005.

GRcade founded 2008.

You do know that a lot of us on here have been 'here' since 2000 or so when we were Gamesradar?

You do know that the winky face means somebody is not being 100% serious?

[KingK]

I do. It also means someone is pointing out the flaws in someone else's statement which is how I read it. We're all good here

[Moggy]

I do. It also means someone is pointing out the flaws in someone else's statement which is how I read it. We're all good here

NO WE ARE NOT, DATES ARE SERIOUS BUSINESS.

You’ve made a powerful enemy today.

[captain red dog]

More truth bombs.

The Force Awakens supremacy.

TFA seemed to be loved at first and then was very quickly panned. It’ll be interesting if opinion of TLJ gets better or worse over the next couple of months.

That's true but in the wake of TLJ I think TFA is seen a lot more fondly again.

For me it feels like one of those stories where you get different people to write a paragraph and it goes all over the place. TFA set up so much, but TLJ seemed to discard it and go in a different direction completely.

[Qikz]

I found TFA boring. It was just ANH again. TLJ I found awesome.

[Return_of_the_STAR]

i'm still very much in the loved TLJ camp. I'm going to watch it again next week so will see if my feelings change but i was gripped throughout and left on a massive buzz. If i over analyse it then sure i can find faults but i thoroughly enjoyed the spectacle.