^|SPOILERS!|^ SW: The Last Jedi Discussion thread - ^|SPOILERS!|^

[7256930752]

More truth bombs.

The Force Awakens supremacy.

TFA seemed to be loved at first and then was very quickly panned. It’ll be interesting if opinion of TLJ gets better or worse over the next couple of months.

I hope I have the opposite reaction to TFA in that I loved it at the cinema, not so much a few months later and now I enjoy it for what it is. Hopefully the horrendous dialogue and pointless narrative in TLJ will become more tolerable over time. I just can't see people becoming accepting of Luke's character.

[SandyCoin]

Just got back from seeing it and would probably give it a 6/10. Some cracking moments but too much wasted time. As others mentioned that whole casino plot was overlong and pretty much not needed. Just like the awful big monster octopus thing in TFA.

Nothing really grabbed me, and the only interesting thing was Snoke dying so quickly. Not sure why people are saying they took loads of risks.

Again a lot of stuff taken from the older trilogy just for the nostalgia effect.

Luke and R2 was a very nice scene, and I enjoyed his reunion with Leia.

It needs a reward, but I still prefer rogue one of the new batch of films.

[more heat than light]

I just can't see people becoming accepting of Luke's character.

I don't get the issue with this. He has a fleeting moment of rage (he says it passes quickly) because he senses the evil in Ben and realises all his efforts at training have failed. Anyone who has been a teacher or parent can relate to that kind of feeling, it just happened at the worst possible time for him. After the events that follow, the idea that he could become disillusioned with the Jedi and want to shut everything away is totally understandable.

I think it's an excellent character arc and makes his redemption at the end a worthy payoff.

[Alvin Flummux]

I just can't see people becoming accepting of Luke's character.

I don't get the issue with this. He has a fleeting moment of rage (he says it passes quickly) because he senses the evil in Ben and realises all his efforts at training have failed. Anyone who has been a teacher or parent can relate to that kind of feeling, it just happened at the worst possible time for him. After the events that follow, the idea that he could become disillusioned with the Jedi and want to shut everything away is totally understandable.

I think it's an excellent character arc and makes his redemption at the end a worthy payoff.

While I agree with everything you say, the fact that Mark Hamill himself hated Luke's final arc makes me a bit uncomfortable with the whole thing, even though I loved it.

[Frank]

Yeah, I don’t understand why people say it’s out of character for him. It’s not like he’s been totally infallible throughout the series previously. He’s always been emotionally driven.

It’s interesting that even Hamill himself isn’t totally comfortable with it, though.

EDIT: Alvin

[Return_of_the_STAR]

I think some people misunderstood the Luke attempting to kill kylo part. He didn’t actually go there to kill him. He went there to see into his mind as he felt the dark side increasing around him, it was only when he was standing over him whilst he slept that he saw the full extent of the dark side in kylo and then he decided to strike him down.

[7256930752]

I just can't see people becoming accepting of Luke's character.

I don't get the issue with this. He has a fleeting moment of rage (he says it passes quickly) because he senses the evil in Ben and realises all his efforts at training have failed. Anyone who has been a teacher or parent can relate to that kind of feeling, it just happened at the worst possible time for him. After the events that follow, the idea that he could become disillusioned with the Jedi and want to shut everything away is totally understandable.

I think it's an excellent character arc and makes his redemption at the end a worthy payoff.

A fleeting moment of rage in that he almost murdered someone. That doesn't fit the character of Luke.

The idea of him going into solitude is OK. The idea that he becomes a self righteous, miserable strawberry floater does not.

[DML]

I just can't see people becoming accepting of Luke's character.

I don't get the issue with this. He has a fleeting moment of rage (he says it passes quickly) because he senses the evil in Ben and realises all his efforts at training have failed. Anyone who has been a teacher or parent can relate to that kind of feeling, it just happened at the worst possible time for him. After the events that follow, the idea that he could become disillusioned with the Jedi and want to shut everything away is totally understandable.

I think it's an excellent character arc and makes his redemption at the end a worthy payoff.

A fleeting moment of rage in that he almost murdered someone. That doesn't fit the character of Luke.

The idea of him going into solitude is OK. The idea that he becomes a self righteous, miserable strawberry floater does not.

He was faced with the equivalent of new Hitler.

I'd think twice!

[Alvin Flummux]

I just can't see people becoming accepting of Luke's character.

I don't get the issue with this. He has a fleeting moment of rage (he says it passes quickly) because he senses the evil in Ben and realises all his efforts at training have failed. Anyone who has been a teacher or parent can relate to that kind of feeling, it just happened at the worst possible time for him. After the events that follow, the idea that he could become disillusioned with the Jedi and want to shut everything away is totally understandable.

I think it's an excellent character arc and makes his redemption at the end a worthy payoff.

A fleeting moment of rage in that he almost murdered someone. That doesn't fit the character of Luke.

Was it really rage, though, or was it the fear of the Dark Side, and what it would drive Ben to become, that drove Luke to activate and raise his lightsaber?

[False]

I liked it. Too long at first and the casino stuff is ??? But I liked it enough I think.

Rogue One a best

[Victor Mildew]

I liked it. Too long at first and the casino stuff is ??? But I liked it enough I think.

Rogue One a best

[Trelliz]

Saw it today and thought it was entertaining but not amazing. Why, in an era of FTL travel and sapient AI did someone need to stay on the rebel cruiser? Is there no such thing as an autopilot?

Also i have fundamental problems with the empire/first order/whatever; they are so theatrically evil that they are their own undoing - if they blatted the solitary approaching x-wing at the start then it would be all over. They have lost loads of massive ships, stations and an entire planet, has there been no thinking that how about build loads of normal star destroyers for the equivalent costs and materials and control more territory and be more strategically and tactically agile?

[Alvin Flummux]

Saw it today and thought it was entertaining but not amazing. Why, in an era of FTL travel and sapient AI did someone need to stay on the rebel cruiser? Is there no such thing as an autopilot?

I assume that any autopilot worth its salt would automatically deny any obviously unsafe hyperspace vector (such as through a nearby warship), or it would automatically plot the nearest safe route as close as possible to the originally proposed vector. Doesn't explain how the Falcon was able to jump into Starkiller's atmosphere though - but I guess its navicomp had likely been modified so many times that such actions wouldn't be considered unsafe to it. Given the abundance of droids, and their ability to perform tasks like piloting (R2-D2 has done it alone several times), I do wonder why a droid wasn't tasked with the job. Maybe the available cadre of droids had in-built safeguards that would have taken too long to override in those specific circumstances? Or maybe the task required access codes that only Holdo had access to? I don't know. Maybe Holdo was just suicidally depressed.

has there been no thinking that how about build loads of normal star destroyers for the equivalent costs and materials and control more territory and be more strategically and tactically agile?

Their ethos is that fewer, larger capital ships = greater force projection over larger areas than fleets of smaller models. That's why the old Republic Venator-class Star Destroyers' dorsal and internal starfighter hangars were eliminated in the Imperial lines of Star Destroyers, replaced by a single ventral hangar complex, along with a much reduced reliance on starfighter superiority. The Death Stars and Starkiller Base were the ultimate embodiment of this ethos. Ruling by fear, essentially.

[Tafdolphin]

I just can't see people becoming accepting of Luke's character.

I don't get the issue with this. He has a fleeting moment of rage (he says it passes quickly) because he senses the evil in Ben and realises all his efforts at training have failed. Anyone who has been a teacher or parent can relate to that kind of feeling, it just happened at the worst possible time for him. After the events that follow, the idea that he could become disillusioned with the Jedi and want to shut everything away is totally understandable.

I think it's an excellent character arc and makes his redemption at the end a worthy payoff.

While I agree with everything you say, the fact that Mark Hamill himself hated Luke's final arc makes me a bit uncomfortable with the whole thing, even though I loved it.

He's now come out and said he regrets saying this, and that TJL is a great film.

I agree with him for what it's worth.

[Alvin Flummux]

Well, he never said that he didn't like TLJ, indeed he has always maintained that Luke's TLJ arc works perfectly in the story as written, and that he loves the movie. He just didn't think that the Luke he knew would sequester himself away for god knows how many years like that.

But yeah, private creative differences are common across the industry, but we don't usually hear about them. I do like that we heard Hamill's point of view though - just the same as I quietly hope that each new installment meets with Lucas' approval, even though everyone hates him.

[Skippy]

Saw it today and thought it was entertaining but not amazing. Why, in an era of FTL travel and sapient AI did someone need to stay on the rebel cruiser? Is there no such thing as an autopilot?

Also i have fundamental problems with the empire/first order/whatever; they are so theatrically evil that they are their own undoing - if they blatted the solitary approaching x-wing at the start then it would be all over. They have lost loads of massive ships, stations and an entire planet, has there been no thinking that how about build loads of normal star destroyers for the equivalent costs and materials and control more territory and be more strategically and tactically agile?

strawberry floating hell. Some people really don't deserve films do they?

[Tomous]

Hamill updated that statement with a tweet a few days ago where he said he was happy with the way Luke went in the end, as "benevolent Jedi training a young padawan" had already been seen before

No doubt after a bollocking from Disney for bringing bad press to their money making machine.

[Trelliz]

strawberry floating hell. Some people really don't deserve films do they?

Their ethos is that fewer, larger capital ships = greater force projection over larger areas than fleets of smaller models. That's why the old Republic Venator-class Star Destroyers' dorsal and internal starfighter hangars were eliminated in the Imperial lines of Star Destroyers, replaced by a single ventral hangar complex, along with a much reduced reliance on starfighter superiority. The Death Stars and Starkiller Base were the ultimate embodiment of this ethos. Ruling by fear, essentially.

I suppose that, given how long turning a whole planet into a laser weapon would take or how long building a fuck-off huge ship would take they were all begun or signed off before episode 4 and therefore had to keep going even once the first death star popped due to the sheer costs involved.

[Victor Mildew]

"If you want to appear as Luke the force ghost then you better change your tune and stop shitting on a film that's still in cinemas or we'll write you out of the next one" - Disney

[Denster]

If he hadn't said that - there'd certainly have been less whiny bitches jumping on that bandwagon.