The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Voting open today from 7am - 10pm

[Akai XIII]

Can't support Labour under Corbyn. Lib Dems it is.

Still, not sure if that's a wasted vote - the Green Party had a higher number of votes here last time.

[That]

They stole Project Fear from the Scottish Nationalists, who used the term in the independence campaign they lost (though to be fair, it probably did win them some votes).

I can't comment on the SNP's messaging in the first Scottish referendum, because I don't live in Scotland and was fairly insulated from the whole thing.

[captain red dog]

Good announcement from Labour this morning that they will pursue a very different Brexit to the Tories, rather much in line with the Lib Dems. I don't get why the Lib Dems have ruled out coalition. It basically makes any of their pledges utterly meaningless, if you believed they would deliver on them anyway in coalition.

[Rex Kramer]

At this point, any mention of the word coalition is toxic to the Lib Dems. It would completely collapse their vote. I can imagine that down the line, they probably would go into coalition if necessary but they certainly won't talk about it before the election.

[Moggy]

At this point, any mention of the word coalition is toxic to the Lib Dems. It would completely collapse their vote. I can imagine that down the line, they probably would go into coalition if necessary but they certainly won't talk about it before the election.

That, plus they are trying to show themselves as different to Labour and are hoping to win Labour seats, it wouldn't make sense to announce you'd just join up with them after.

It's pretty obvious that if it was possible they'd try and form a government with Labour.

[Qikz]

Corbyn is someone who I agree with very closely on policy in the main, with a few exceptions, but he has done a pisspoor job as leader, and the Labour infighting as a result has been disastrous. The Tories might be a despicable bunch, but at least they have the decency to conduct their internal disputes behind closed doors, and not air their dirty laundry in public. When the Leave/Remain vote came, it could have schismed the Conservatives, but look at them now, the commanding force in British politics.

Even if the media were hell bent against Corbyn, this is the internet, free mass information age. As the alt right have proved, conventional media doesn't need to be on your side. Where's Momentum's version of Breitbart?

Not only is Jeremy Corbyn bad at speaking off script, but apparently so are all the further left Labour MPs that support him, so it's little wonder there's so little in the way of inspiring soundbites from them.

I've really not been a fan of the example he's set as leader, either. As someone who made a career of rebelling from the back benches, he's been terribly authoritarian with the whip, particularly on issues that I feel would have been better served by a free vote.

Moving on from Corbyn to Lib Dems, I found an interesting link on Twitter examining his voting record on gay rights. While he may have voted the right way on bills, he's supported some pretty dodgy amendments:

twitter.com/stavvers/status/856566921411559424

During the marriage equality programme back in 2013, Tim Farron voted for several homophobic amendments.

To allow registrars not to carry out same sex marriages if they object to them on the basis of sincerely held religious or other beliefs. This, you might notice, is how in some US states, religious bigots are getting around same-sex marriage laws. Tim Farron voted for this same process to be applied over here.
To strengthen protections for those not wishing to conduct or participate in a religious marriage ceremony due to it being a marriage of a same sex couple. No consequences for those homophobic registrars, if they don’t get their “conscientious objection” clause!
To make discrimination on the basis of an individual’s beliefs regarding the definition of marriage illegal. Religious bigotry, Tim voted, should be a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.

Charming

But still, I'll be choosing between voting Liberal or Labour.

I love how the media is making a huge deal about Farron. Meanwhile the conservatives never get this shitty treatment.

[Lagamorph]

Good announcement from Labour this morning that they will pursue a very different Brexit to the Tories, rather much in line with the Lib Dems.

So why didn't they do all of this when they had the strawberry floating chance already rather than just waving through the Brexit bill unamended?

[Moggy]

Good announcement from Labour this morning that they will pursue a very different Brexit to the Tories, rather much in line with the Lib Dems.

So why didn't they do all of this when they had the strawberry floating chance already rather than just waving through the Brexit bill unamended?

Because.

[Preezy]

I find it frustrating when people interviewed fail to give a single policy reason why they hate Corbyn and love May. Is that what we are reduced to now, a cult of personality and a competition to be more 'patriotic' than the next person.

Yes.

/thread.

[captain red dog]

Good announcement from Labour this morning that they will pursue a very different Brexit to the Tories, rather much in line with the Lib Dems.

So why didn't they do all of this when they had the strawberry floating chance already rather than just waving through the Brexit bill unamended?

Because.

Because the Brexit bill was to trigger article 50 and to block it would have been directly opposed to the referendum result. Stopping Brexit is not an option without a huge constitutional crisis. It just isn't realistic. The best option for Remainers now is a soft Brexit.

[Qikz]

Good announcement from Labour this morning that they will pursue a very different Brexit to the Tories, rather much in line with the Lib Dems.

So why didn't they do all of this when they had the strawberry floating chance already rather than just waving through the Brexit bill unamended?

Because.

Because the Brexit bill was to trigger article 50 and to block it would have been directly opposed to the referendum result. Stopping Brexit is not an option without a huge constitutional crisis. It just isn't realistic. The best option for Remainers now is a soft Brexit.

A soft Brexit is not the best option for Remainers, not leaving is the best option for remainers, sadly the people in government are not willing to bite the bullet and do what's best for the country.

[captain red dog]

Good announcement from Labour this morning that they will pursue a very different Brexit to the Tories, rather much in line with the Lib Dems.

So why didn't they do all of this when they had the strawberry floating chance already rather than just waving through the Brexit bill unamended?

Because.

Because the Brexit bill was to trigger article 50 and to block it would have been directly opposed to the referendum result. Stopping Brexit is not an option without a huge constitutional crisis. It just isn't realistic. The best option for Remainers now is a soft Brexit.

A soft Brexit is not the best option for Remainers, not leaving is the best option for remainers, sadly the people in government are not willing to bite the bullet and do what's best for the country.

Not leaving is not an option. Nobody in their right minds is going to overturn a referendum result. So soft Brexit is the only option for Remainers that is on the table. You have to fight the battles you can win from this point.

[Hexx]

Plenty of people in their right minds would fight Brexit given the cluster strawberry float of lies and hatred it's based on.

[captain red dog]

Plenty of people in their right minds would fight Brexit given the cluster strawberry float of lies and hatred it's based on.

You have to be realistic about what is achievable. Unless Labour and Lib Dems can form a coalition government, there is absolutely no way of stopping anything but hard Tory Brexit.

[DML]

Good announcement from Labour this morning that they will pursue a very different Brexit to the Tories, rather much in line with the Lib Dems.

So why didn't they do all of this when they had the strawberry floating chance already rather than just waving through the Brexit bill unamended?

Because.

Because the Brexit bill was to trigger article 50 and to block it would have been directly opposed to the referendum result. Stopping Brexit is not an option without a huge constitutional crisis. It just isn't realistic. The best option for Remainers now is a soft Brexit.

A soft Brexit is not the best option for Remainers, not leaving is the best option for remainers, sadly the people in government are not willing to bite the bullet and do what's best for the country.

Not leaving is not an option. Nobody in their right minds is going to overturn a referendum result. So soft Brexit is the only option for Remainers that is on the table. You have to fight the battles you can win from this point.

Of course it is. Doesn't mean its likely, but leaving it off the table completely is pure stubborness. Can't keep saying it enough, it was an advisory referendum, not a 'mandate'.

[Moggy]

Good announcement from Labour this morning that they will pursue a very different Brexit to the Tories, rather much in line with the Lib Dems.

So why didn't they do all of this when they had the strawberry floating chance already rather than just waving through the Brexit bill unamended?

Because.

Because the Brexit bill was to trigger article 50 and to block it would have been directly opposed to the referendum result. Stopping Brexit is not an option without a huge constitutional crisis. It just isn't realistic. The best option for Remainers now is a soft Brexit.

Laga didn't say Labour should have blocked it, he said Labour (well Corbyn) helped to force it through unamended. A soft Brexit would have been far more easily achieved if Labour didn't just wave through what the Tory's wanted.

[Moggy]

Good announcement from Labour this morning that they will pursue a very different Brexit to the Tories, rather much in line with the Lib Dems.

So why didn't they do all of this when they had the strawberry floating chance already rather than just waving through the Brexit bill unamended?

Because.

Because the Brexit bill was to trigger article 50 and to block it would have been directly opposed to the referendum result. Stopping Brexit is not an option without a huge constitutional crisis. It just isn't realistic. The best option for Remainers now is a soft Brexit.

A soft Brexit is not the best option for Remainers, not leaving is the best option for remainers, sadly the people in government are not willing to bite the bullet and do what's best for the country.

Not leaving is not an option. Nobody in their right minds is going to overturn a referendum result. So soft Brexit is the only option for Remainers that is on the table. You have to fight the battles you can win from this point.

Of course it is. Doesn't mean its likely, but leaving it off the table completely is pure stubborness. Can't keep saying it enough, it was an advisory referendum, not a 'mandate'.

This. The referendum was not legally binding. It wasn't an overwhelming "victory" for Leavers. It will screw the country over. Most importantly, if it had been in Remain's favour, then UKIP and the hard Tory right would have continued pushing for Brexit to happen, why shouldn't we try and fight it?

[captain red dog]

You have every right to fight it, but no political party is seriously planning to stop anything but a soft Brexit. If you focus on the wrong fight, we end up with hard Tory Brexit.

This is a campaign where the main priority for Labour, Lib Dems and Remain voters is to get the Tories out. Who knows, if you get a Lib/Lab coalition, there may even be a second referendum although I think thats highly unlikely.

It doesn't matter if the referendum was legally binding. There is not a feasible option on the table not to uphold the result. As for Labour not doing enough to secure soft Brexit, they clearly did enough to convince May that she needed a general election to secure her mandate and get a larger majority for the Brexit she wants.

[Lagamorph]

It doesn't matter if the referendum was legally binding. There is not a feasible option on the table not to uphold the result. As for Labour not doing enough to secure soft Brexit, they clearly did enough to convince May that she needed a general election to secure her mandate and get a larger majority for the Brexit she wants.

Given that the leave victory was thanks to a campaign based on utter lies that the liars openly admitted to afterwards I'd say that not upholding the result is absolutely a feasible option, since the voting public were completely and utterly misled like never before in history.

The EU referendum result is about as legitimate as a Russian election.

[Hexx]

The best way to get "Soft" Brexit is to show how many people don't want Brexit full stop - that'll scare more compromise into politicians than caving, but asking them to tweak