The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Last day to register to vote

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

Who will you be voting for?

Conservatives
10
10%
Labour
43
42%
UK Independence Party
0
No votes
Liberal Democrats (inc. Alliance)
34
33%
Scottish Nationalists
9
9%
Green Party (inc. Scotland, Northern Ireland)
4
4%
Democratic Unionists
0
No votes
Sinn Féin
0
No votes
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
Ulster Unionists
0
No votes
Social Democrats
1
1%
Traditional Unionist Voice
0
No votes
People Before Profit Alliance
1
1%
 
Total votes: 102
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Eighthours
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Eighthours » Fri May 19, 2017 11:42 am

OrangeRakoon wrote:
Moggy wrote:I can't be arsed to find it, but there are maps and data out there that show that the people most against immigration are those people that live in areas least effected by immigration.


Areas that have been most affected by immigration are also in some cases strongly against immigration, with Boston being the common example. I am under the belief that integration is as important a factor, but I don't have the stats in front of me.

My impression is that there is a curve, with both extremes (very low and very high immigration) being anti-immigration and the middle ground being more open. At the low immigration end there is the "fear of the unknown" and little exposure to the realities and benefits of immigration, and at the high immigration end there is often poor integration and "fear of change" as the cultural shift is too rapid.


Good post.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Moggy » Fri May 19, 2017 11:56 am

Eighthours wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Moggy wrote:I can't be arsed to find it, but there are maps and data out there that show that the people most against immigration are those people that live in areas least effected by immigration.


Areas that have been most affected by immigration are also in some cases strongly against immigration, with Boston being the common example. I am under the belief that integration is as important a factor, but I don't have the stats in front of me.

My impression is that there is a curve, with both extremes (very low and very high immigration) being anti-immigration and the middle ground being more open. At the low immigration end there is the "fear of the unknown" and little exposure to the realities and benefits of immigration, and at the high immigration end there is often poor integration and "fear of change" as the cultural shift is too rapid.


Good post.


I don't know much about Boston (other than the Red Sox ;) ) but is it an area that suffers from high unemployment? I'd imagine a combination of high unemployment, high immigration and UKIP/Daily Mail lies will lead to a situation where people want an end to immigration.

I am not sure what is meant by integration either. Is it people being sick of Polish shops? People with different accents/languages? Different colour skin? How do you integrate people in a place like Boston any differently to the way people have integrated in London or other pro-EU cities like Bristol?
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KK
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by KK » Fri May 19, 2017 12:03 pm

A lack of integration is when one nationality or race dominates one area, and there is clear segregation between the two. This is a major problem in certain parts of England & somehow needs to be rectified. A few areas have forcibly tried social engineering, in which you close one school so students & therefore parents have to integrate, rather than this situation of a Muslim neighbourhood with a Muslim school and a white neighboured with a white school, both sides disdainful of the other.
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Preezy
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Preezy » Fri May 19, 2017 12:11 pm

Such division and derision of "the other" in this country, quite disheartening.
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KK
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by KK » Fri May 19, 2017 12:17 pm

An absolutely pathetic 1.65m tuned into the Leaders without the Leaders debate on ITV last night (the last one pulled in 7 million). 4,191,000 of the country decided they'd rather watch Eastenders spin off with Kat & Alfie instead.

BTW, registering to vote ends on Monday too.
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Dowbocop
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Dowbocop » Fri May 19, 2017 12:23 pm

Eighthours wrote:
Dowbocop wrote:
Eighthours wrote:I think that postal voting should be abolished, personally, as it's way too open to manipulation. But that's another story!

I'm on holiday for this election. How can I vote if not by post or proxy?


Proxy it up! :D

My wife and I probably only have two people who we would trust to do that for us (and that we would feel comfortable placing the imposition upon), and we're in no way isolated members of society. It's absolutely possible that somebody could have nobody to do that for them. Furthermore, a proxy vote is a consensual forfeiture of a voter's right to privacy in exchange for convenience. If a voter is disabled, for example, and cannot vote by post, they have no option but to reveal their voting preference to their proxy. There is also absolutely no protection against the proxy binning off Nana's wishes and having a double dip.
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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Alvin Flummux » Fri May 19, 2017 12:30 pm

I've applied to vote by proxy, sent an email with the fully filled out form to Bradford's electoral services last weekend as instructed on the government's website. No response. Losing hope.
Jupiter is in your sun sign this week, making it pretty crowded in there, what with Jupiter being the largest of the planets and all.
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Cuttooth
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Cuttooth » Fri May 19, 2017 12:36 pm

So postal voting and voting in person without identification is too open to electoral fraud but proxy voting, which Dowbocop rightly points out requires you to reveal your voting intentions to someone, is absolutely fine?
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Lucien
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Lucien » Fri May 19, 2017 12:50 pm

Karl wrote:
Lucien wrote:Even if nobody was committing voter fraud right now, that doesn't mean it'll stay like that. Voter ID is just a sensible defence and it's frankly a bit mad we don't already have it.


I can't believe you actually think this.

What other pre-emptive laws would you like the government to implement to solve problems that might happen one day?

Maybe we should GPS track you at all times just in case you turn out to be a criminal?


I can imagine being on a departing Titanic with you, then I say "I don't think there are enough lifeboats", to which you reply "We don't need any. The ship is in perfect condition!".

There's nothing wrong with pre-emptive laws per se. You will agree with some forms of defence even if you don't agree with voter id laws. All you've done at the end there (as Erkkal and Moggy subsequently did) is argue to absurdity.
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Errkal
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Errkal » Fri May 19, 2017 12:52 pm

Lucien wrote:
Karl wrote:
Lucien wrote:Even if nobody was committing voter fraud right now, that doesn't mean it'll stay like that. Voter ID is just a sensible defence and it's frankly a bit mad we don't already have it.


I can't believe you actually think this.

What other pre-emptive laws would you like the government to implement to solve problems that might happen one day?

Maybe we should GPS track you at all times just in case you turn out to be a criminal?


I can imagine being on a departing Titanic with you, then I say "I don't think there are enough lifeboats", to which you reply "We don't need any. The ship is in perfect condition!".

There's nothing wrong with pre-emptive laws per se. You will agree with some forms of defence even if you don't agree with voter id laws. All you've done at the end there (as Erkkal and Moggy subsequently did) is argue to absurdity.


Premptive laws like sayign "Dont murder people" before murder happens are one thing, giving up civil liberties because someone might do something are a total other thing.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Moggy » Fri May 19, 2017 12:54 pm

Lucien wrote:All you've done at the end there (as Erkkal and Moggy subsequently did) is argue to absurdity.


What was absurd about continuing your line of thought? You want the government to introduce a system that will stop many people voting to fix a problem that doesn't really exist. Now that is absurd.

If anything, Errkal’s idea of cameras in every room of everyone’s home is a better idea than your desire for voter ID, after all there are far far more crimes carried out behind closed doors than there are at the polling station.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Moggy » Fri May 19, 2017 12:57 pm

KK wrote:A lack of integration is when one nationality or race dominates one area, and there is clear segregation between the two. This is a major problem in certain parts of England & somehow needs to be rectified. A few areas have forcibly tried social engineering, in which you close one school so students & therefore parents have to integrate, rather than this situation of a Muslim neighbourhood with a Muslim school and a white neighboured with a white school, both sides disdainful of the other.


Other than by force, how would that ever be possible to stop? If certain groups want to live in areas with people of the same group as them, what can you do about it?

I wonder if Spain has the same conversation regarding the British immigrants that live on the Spanish coast. Or maybe they are just glad that the Brits are all in one area and not shitting up their cities with their full English breakfasts. ;)
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Lucien
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Lucien » Fri May 19, 2017 1:12 pm

Moggy wrote:
Lucien wrote:All you've done at the end there (as Erkkal and Moggy subsequently did) is argue to absurdity.


What was absurd about continuing your line of thought? You want the government to introduce a system that will stop many people voting to fix a problem that doesn't really exist. Now that is absurd.

If anything, Errkal’s idea of cameras in every room of everyone’s home is a better idea than your desire for voter ID, after all there are far far more crimes carried out behind closed doors than there are at the polling station.


You can do it with anything - say "Well if you don't like this more extreme example, why do you bother with the less extreme one?"

I mean you have a lock on your front door because "what if" someone tries to get in. Well "what if" they get in Moggy? You should lock up your fridge and cupboards, and then put locks on those locks, and so on and so on. Plus they might rape you so lock up your privates.
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Errkal
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Errkal » Fri May 19, 2017 1:16 pm

Moggy wrote:
KK wrote:A lack of integration is when one nationality or race dominates one area, and there is clear segregation between the two. This is a major problem in certain parts of England & somehow needs to be rectified. A few areas have forcibly tried social engineering, in which you close one school so students & therefore parents have to integrate, rather than this situation of a Muslim neighbourhood with a Muslim school and a white neighboured with a white school, both sides disdainful of the other.


Other than by force, how would that ever be possible to stop? If certain groups want to live in areas with people of the same group as them, what can you do about it?

I wonder if Spain has the same conversation regarding the British immigrants that live on the Spanish coast. Or maybe they are just glad that the Brits are all in one area and not shitting up their cities with their full English breakfasts. ;)


Aren't the areas with the most anti-immigration feeling the ones with the least immigration?

Places with massive immigration like cities seem to be fine with it, wheres as smaller towns where they have next to non, but have been strawberry floated over by a government in some way seem to jump on the immigration stole my job bandwagon as an escape goat.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Moggy » Fri May 19, 2017 1:17 pm

Lucien wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lucien wrote:All you've done at the end there (as Erkkal and Moggy subsequently did) is argue to absurdity.


What was absurd about continuing your line of thought? You want the government to introduce a system that will stop many people voting to fix a problem that doesn't really exist. Now that is absurd.

If anything, Errkal’s idea of cameras in every room of everyone’s home is a better idea than your desire for voter ID, after all there are far far more crimes carried out behind closed doors than there are at the polling station.


You can do it with anything - say "Well if you don't like this more extreme example, why do you bother with the less extreme one?"

I mean you have a lock on your front door because "what if" someone tries to get in. Well "what if" they get in Moggy? You should lock up your fridge and cupboards, and then put locks on those locks, and so on and so on. Plus they might rape you so lock up your privates.


Yes but you are ignoring the fact that burglaries actually happen and voter fraud is practically non existent.

Your view is more "We should have checkpoints on every single road at all times to catch armed robbers". Sure you might catch a couple, but you are going to inconvenience millions in order to do something that isn't a massive problem. Is that absurd? Yes and that is precisely my point.
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Karl
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Karl » Fri May 19, 2017 1:20 pm

Moggy wrote:Yes but you are ignoring the fact that burglaries actually happen and voter fraud is practically non existent.

Your view is more "We should have checkpoints on every single road at all times to catch armed robbers". Sure you might catch a couple, but you are going to inconvenience millions in order to do something that isn't a massive problem. Is that absurd? Yes and that is precisely my point.


Spot on.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Moggy » Fri May 19, 2017 1:26 pm

Karl wrote:Spot on.


Thx hun xxx :wub:

Let’s put it another way. I don’t think GRcade is exactly dying, but we have very few new members joining and slowly the regular members are likely to drift away as they find better things to do or die horribly in anal related accidents. We have had the odd troll or spambot popping in to annoy us but that’s not a major issue.

What to do? Should we encourage people to continue posting by making it easy to do, or should we insist on a scan of everybody’s passport before they are allowed to post? Any decent member of GRcade surely has a passport and it will stop spambots! What could possibly be wrong with that?
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Eighthours
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Eighthours » Fri May 19, 2017 1:39 pm

Cuttooth wrote:So postal voting and voting in person without identification is too open to electoral fraud but proxy voting, which Dowbocop rightly points out requires you to reveal your voting intentions to someone, is absolutely fine?


Good point. Neither are particularly great.

The instances of, and opportunities for, postal voting fraud are numerous and obvious.

For example:

Postal voting fraud has become “easy” because of “extremely lax rules”, the electoral commissioner has said amid concerns that the practice is widespread.

Richard Mawrey found that people working for Lutfur Rahman, the disgraced former mayor of Tower Hamlets, were guilty of personation – an electoral offence whereby a vote is cast in the name of someone else.

In his judgment the former mayor, Mr Mawrey raised concerns that the fraud is increasingly commonplace.

He said: “By the 21st century, a combination of the extremely lax rules relating to the registration of electors and the introduction of postal voting on demand made personation once again viable.

“The ease of postal vote fraud and the difficulty of policing it led to such a great upsurge in personation that, in the Birmingham case, the number of false votes was virtually half of all votes recorded as having been cast for the winning candidates.”

In 2005 Mr Mawrey found six Labour councillors in Birmingham guilty of “massive, systematic and organised” postal voting fraud to win two wards during local elections.

He said that the scale of fraud would disgrace a “banana republic”, and heard evidence that thousands of postal votes had been stolen to be changed or filled in by Labour supporters.

In 2009 a former Tory candidate and five others were jailed for using “ghost” voters to win a local council ballot.

Eshaq Khan and his co-defendants used fake votes to oust long-standing Labour councillor Lydia Simmons from her seat on Slough Borough Council.
The fraudulent plot was uncovered when ousted Labour councillor and former mayor Miss Simmons and her Labour team questioned the result.
They pointed out that at a number of houses up to 19 names – all Asian – had registered in the run-up to the election at the same address, then opted to vote by post.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -says.html

Clearly this kind of thing can't be allowed to happen. It's just too easy to instigate this kind of fraud.
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Errkal
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Errkal » Fri May 19, 2017 1:43 pm

That sounds more a failing of the registration process than the postal vote system.

They all registered to vote at the same address, that comes before the postal vote, so that fact they are were able to register at the same address is the fault in the system.

Had they not been able to register at the same address like that the postal votes wouldn't have been sent out and then used.
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Denster
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PostRe: The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Snap Election for 8th June
by Denster » Fri May 19, 2017 1:47 pm

Voter ID is a waste of everyone's time and money.
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