The 2017 UK General Election Thread - Voting open today from 7am - 10pm

[Hexx]

Look. Don't start suggestion that the largest trading block and diplomatic grouping in the world contributed to stability of relations between it's members.

Bloody hell. Don't you know what democracy and free speech mean? Person's A ignorance and feeling is just as valid as Person's B facts and evidence!

[Rocsteady]

Get those psychic goggles on Moggy.

I've mentioned it before but the main thing that stuck out to me when reading Churchill's autobiography was his strong belief that no major wars would take place again in his lifetime. This was at the beginning of the 20th century.

[Rex Kramer]

Again though, nobody is suggesting that the UK will go to war with the EU as it currently stands. The point is that the UK leaving will create instability which is always dangerous and it is easy to see how it might happen. If France elects Le Pen and leaves, if Greece or Spain collapse, etc, and the EU collapses then it absolutely leads to a situation where war is a distinct possibility.

Between who?

I'd imagine without the carrot of EU membership then the Balkans would be a reasonable bet.

[Moggy]

Again though, nobody is suggesting that the UK will go to war with the EU as it currently stands. The point is that the UK leaving will create instability which is always dangerous and it is easy to see how it might happen. If France elects Le Pen and leaves, if Greece or Spain collapse, etc, and the EU collapses then it absolutely leads to a situation where war is a distinct possibility.

Between who?

Take your pick. Are you suggesting that a collapse of such magnitude that the entire EU falls apart would not lead to war somewhere in Europe?

[satriales]

'The bus thing wasn't bad as lies go'


Jesus strawberry float

Not what I said at all. The bus lie was an outright lie.

Yeah I know. Some one said it above. It's not all about you.

Well its not what satriales said either as he clearly went on to quantify it. I /quote]

It's literally what he said

I didn't think it was worth replying as the rest of my sentence explained the bit that you picked out, but basically the lie is simply that they said EU membership costs £350M a week when it's actually half that (or whatever the actual number is). Both sides said and did much worse than this, it's only stuck because it was printed on the side of a bus.

[Memento Mori]

John Bercow appears to have forgotten PMQs is only supposed to last 30 mins.

[Moggy]

I didn't think it was worth replying as the rest of my sentence explained the bit that you picked out, but basically the lie is simply that they said EU membership costs £350M a week when it's actually half that (or whatever the actual number is). Both sides said and did much worse than this, it's only stuck because it was printed on the side of a bus.

Both sides said and did much worse? Such as?

The £350m a week for the NHS bus poster was one of the worst (if not the worst) lies told because it was precisely aimed at the masses of poor and struggling people in this country. This wasn't a lie or an exaggeration based on market forecasts or anything too complex and hard to prove as a lie, no this was aimed at people who are desperately struggling and who wanted to feel that they could make a difference towards the NHS.

Utterly despicable.

[Moggy]

Again though, nobody is suggesting that the UK will go to war with the EU as it currently stands. The point is that the UK leaving will create instability which is always dangerous and it is easy to see how it might happen. If France elects Le Pen and leaves, if Greece or Spain collapse, etc, and the EU collapses then it absolutely leads to a situation where war is a distinct possibility.

Between who?

Take your pick. Are you suggesting that a collapse of such magnitude that the entire EU falls apart would not lead to war somewhere in Europe?

It could in the places that haven't joined NATO; I just wondered if you thought anyone could go to war. So long as NATO exists, the countries in it won't go to war.

It could be in places that are not in NATO or places that are in NATO. We are talking about a possible future where the EU has completely collapsed. All bets are off and NATO is not the magical solution to world tensions that you seem to think. People in 1913 were pretty confident that all of the various treaties, alliances and agreements between nations would stop any wars....

I am not saying that there will be war, but to write off the possibility of a European war in the next decade or two is ridiculous. Again, just look how our press was so excited about the prospect of a clash with Spain over Gibraltar. Now imagine that happens again in 10 years time when the economy is at rock bottom and the EU has just collapsed.

But all of this is just deflection. Cameron never said it would lead to WW3, nobody is suggesting it will lead to WW3. All of these prediction of war claims are yet more lies being told by Leave supporters.

[Rocsteady]

I didn't think it was worth replying as the rest of my sentence explained the bit that you picked out, but basically the lie is simply that they said EU membership costs £350M a week when it's actually half that (or whatever the actual number is). Both sides said and did much worse than this, it's only stuck because it was printed on the side of a bus.

Both sides said and did much worse? Such as?

The £350m a week for the NHS bus poster was one of the worst (if not the worst) lies told because it was precisely aimed at the masses of poor and struggling people in this country. This wasn't a lie or an exaggeration based on market forecasts or anything too complex and hard to prove as a lie, no this was aimed at people who are desperately struggling and who wanted to feel that they could make a difference towards the NHS.

Utterly despicable.

That's the thing, they didn't just say 'The EU costs £350m a week' - which nonetheless is a total fabrication. They specified it could all go on the NHS, which is just completely ludicrous.

[captain red dog]

I didn't think it was worth replying as the rest of my sentence explained the bit that you picked out, but basically the lie is simply that they said EU membership costs £350M a week when it's actually half that (or whatever the actual number is). Both sides said and did much worse than this, it's only stuck because it was printed on the side of a bus.

Both sides said and did much worse? Such as?

The £350m a week for the NHS bus poster was one of the worst (if not the worst) lies told because it was precisely aimed at the masses of poor and struggling people in this country. This wasn't a lie or an exaggeration based on market forecasts or anything too complex and hard to prove as a lie, no this was aimed at people who are desperately struggling and who wanted to feel that they could make a difference towards the NHS.

Utterly despicable.

So you would be equally critical of the 4k better off claim from Remain?

[Garth]

I think the EU has been more effective in building genuine friendship between European peoples than a military alliance would have, with intermingling, shared laws, economic ties etc.

[Moggy]

I didn't think it was worth replying as the rest of my sentence explained the bit that you picked out, but basically the lie is simply that they said EU membership costs £350M a week when it's actually half that (or whatever the actual number is). Both sides said and did much worse than this, it's only stuck because it was printed on the side of a bus.

Both sides said and did much worse? Such as?

The £350m a week for the NHS bus poster was one of the worst (if not the worst) lies told because it was precisely aimed at the masses of poor and struggling people in this country. This wasn't a lie or an exaggeration based on market forecasts or anything too complex and hard to prove as a lie, no this was aimed at people who are desperately struggling and who wanted to feel that they could make a difference towards the NHS.

Utterly despicable.

So you would be equally critical of the 4k better off claim from Remain?

It wasn't plastered on the side of a bus.

It wasn't a Remain campaign pledge, it was something said by Osborne.

It wasn't a tactic designed to make people think of the NHS.

It wasn't an outright lie, it was based upon predictions and market forecasts.

So no, I wouldn't be equally critical.

[Moggy]

I think the EU has been more effective in building genuine friendship between European peoples than a military alliance would have, with intermingling, shared laws, economic ties etc.

Agreed. I just don't think war will happen if the EU breaks down (or if it does, it'll be in non-NATO countries and they could simply join that organisation).

That said actually, the EU (or something like it) would be better for peace, and it wouldn't need to involve backwards countries like Turkey and shitty warmongers like the US.

You have way too much confidence in a Cold War treaty.

I don't think the EU will break down. But if it ever does then I absolutely think there will be war between some ex-EU states within 10 years of the breakup.

[Hexx]

I didn't think it was worth replying as the rest of my sentence explained the bit that you picked out, but basically the lie is simply that they said EU membership costs £350M a week when it's actually half that (or whatever the actual number is). Both sides said and did much worse than this, it's only stuck because it was printed on the side of a bus.

Both sides said and did much worse? Such as?

The £350m a week for the NHS bus poster was one of the worst (if not the worst) lies told because it was precisely aimed at the masses of poor and struggling people in this country. This wasn't a lie or an exaggeration based on market forecasts or anything too complex and hard to prove as a lie, no this was aimed at people who are desperately struggling and who wanted to feel that they could make a difference towards the NHS.

Utterly despicable.

So you would be equally critical of the 4k better off claim from Remain?

Where was this then?

[captain red dog]

I didn't think it was worth replying as the rest of my sentence explained the bit that you picked out, but basically the lie is simply that they said EU membership costs £350M a week when it's actually half that (or whatever the actual number is). Both sides said and did much worse than this, it's only stuck because it was printed on the side of a bus.

Both sides said and did much worse? Such as?

The £350m a week for the NHS bus poster was one of the worst (if not the worst) lies told because it was precisely aimed at the masses of poor and struggling people in this country. This wasn't a lie or an exaggeration based on market forecasts or anything too complex and hard to prove as a lie, no this was aimed at people who are desperately struggling and who wanted to feel that they could make a difference towards the NHS.

Utterly despicable.

So you would be equally critical of the 4k better off claim from Remain?

Where was this then?

You don't remember George Osborne saying that if we left the EU each household would be £4k worse off?

[Hexx]

I didn't think it was worth replying as the rest of my sentence explained the bit that you picked out, but basically the lie is simply that they said EU membership costs £350M a week when it's actually half that (or whatever the actual number is). Both sides said and did much worse than this, it's only stuck because it was printed on the side of a bus.

Both sides said and did much worse? Such as?

The £350m a week for the NHS bus poster was one of the worst (if not the worst) lies told because it was precisely aimed at the masses of poor and struggling people in this country. This wasn't a lie or an exaggeration based on market forecasts or anything too complex and hard to prove as a lie, no this was aimed at people who are desperately struggling and who wanted to feel that they could make a difference towards the NHS.

Utterly despicable.

So you would be equally critical of the 4k better off claim from Remain?

Where was this then?

You don't remember George Osborne saying that if we left the EU each household would be £4k worse off?

I'd like to see what you're quoting given how inaccurately you keeping saying things like "war was threatened".

[Moggy]

I didn't think it was worth replying as the rest of my sentence explained the bit that you picked out, but basically the lie is simply that they said EU membership costs £350M a week when it's actually half that (or whatever the actual number is). Both sides said and did much worse than this, it's only stuck because it was printed on the side of a bus.

Both sides said and did much worse? Such as?

The £350m a week for the NHS bus poster was one of the worst (if not the worst) lies told because it was precisely aimed at the masses of poor and struggling people in this country. This wasn't a lie or an exaggeration based on market forecasts or anything too complex and hard to prove as a lie, no this was aimed at people who are desperately struggling and who wanted to feel that they could make a difference towards the NHS.

Utterly despicable.

So you would be equally critical of the 4k better off claim from Remain?

Where was this then?

You don't remember George Osborne saying that if we left the EU each household would be £4k worse off?

You don't remember when George Osborne was made King of Remain and every word uttered from King George Osborne was to be taken as THE ABSOLUTE WORD OF REMAIN?

[Moggy]

Do you all remember when Leave claimed that Nigel Farage was late for work because of traffic causing immigrants?

Do you all remember when Leave claimed that Nigel Farage was the victim of an assassination attempt because he had loose wheels?

Or were those claims by Farage and not Leave itself?

[Photek]

You don't remember when George Osborne was made King of Remain and every word uttered from King George Osborne was to be taken as THE ABSOLUTE WORD OF REMAIN?

[Tomous]

*double post*