Retro-Shooters - THE thread for classic FPS Chat/Mapping/Multiplayer - Wednesdays! (AvP Classic - Setup Pg 39)

[Lotus]

No idea what a 'boomer shooter' is, but I did enjoy playing through Doom earlier this year, having only previously ever played the shareware version. At some point I'll get into Doom 2, and I have Quake I and II in my Steam library. I used to love Rise of the Triad back in the DOS days, and although I'm not sure it'll hold up as well as the likes of Doom or Quake, I think the nostalgia alone will be enough to keep me entertained.

I think the general concensus is that it's an FPS where the focus is very clearly on fast, chunky violence. Usually based around older FPS tropes like non-regenerating health, large numbers of monsters, keys etc.
Not generally big on narrative or interactivity unless it's in service of screaming around levels blasting enemies into icky little piles.

So Serious Sam would probably be one, but System Shock 2 wouldn't. Halo wouldn't be one, nor would CoD or any of the more narrative, set-piece driven shooters that took over from the late 90's/early 2000's.

Hmm, I see. I guess Painkiller would count as a relatively modern equivalent then, which I enjoyed a lot. I think there's another one in the works, either in the Painkiller series, or by the same team. I also may have completely imagined that though, so take it with a pinch of salt

[Cuttooth]

Nooooo I'm not a boomer!

I just appreciate the classic games from my childhood with classic gameplay and classic levels when gaming was better before it got ruined!

[Qikz]

I know Devlin mentioned this, but the trailer looks good.

[Moggy]

I don't even understand the term 'boomer shooter'. It's just classic FPS to me.

Happy to be an old man, me. All these strawberry floating kids with their TikTok buzz words.

I just try and associate it with big boomy guns. Evil Dead did popularise the term boomstick for shotguns so it's not a massive stretch.

Ahh Evil Dead, the Boomer Movie.

[Cheeky Devlin]

I know Devlin mentioned this, but the trailer looks good.

I've played the first couple of levels so far and it's really fun. Chaotic and messy, but in a fun way.

There's a lot of modern movement tech in it which makes it feel really nice. Definite elements from the most recent Doom games as well as wallrunning later on.

They've also taken the combat slide from Titanfall, strapped a chainsaw to your leg and then fired you off five times the speed.
It's great fun just chewing through a well placed line of enemies and turning them all to mulch.

So far I can highly recommend this one.

[Squinty]

I like playing these types of games. I find them to be interesting time capsules.

Doom 2 is probably the most interesting to me. Absolutely brilliant in terms of enemy design, they all compliment each other. The base gameplay is just wonderful. I get why there is a huge WAD scene over this.

The level design is strawberry floating abysmal though. It's so fascinating to me how they nailed the fundamentals but gooseberry fool the bed in terms of good levels.

[Cheeky Devlin]

I like playing these types of games. I find them to be interesting time capsules.

Doom 2 is probably the most interesting to me. Absolutely brilliant in terms of enemy design, they all compliment each other. The base gameplay is just wonderful. I get why there is a huge WAD scene over this.

The level design is strawberry floating abysmal though. It's so fascinating to me how they nailed the fundamentals but gooseberry fool the bed in terms of good levels.

Probably don't play Rise of the Triad then.

It's based on an enhanced Wolfenstein 3D engine, so everything is grid based and it has none of the advancements that Doom had when it launched a year earlier.
Lots of maze-like levels with no logical layout to them. Very old school.

But it makes up for it with really fun, often bizarre combat.
The remaster that just came out is what I'm mostly playing just now.

[Jenuall]

The level design in classic Doom is amazing! (for the most part, there are definitely some stinkers in there as well)

Doom 2 in particular has got some superb levels, perfectly balancing the key factors of sprawling design and escalating chaos

[Qikz]

EDIT: Made a thread.

[jawa_]

...I've never played Dark Forces but I recall that it was well-regarded back in the day! It's coming to Switch so I might take a look.

[Cheeky Devlin]

Been on an old school shooter spree recently.

I'm continuing to play through Rise of the Triad: Ludicrous Edition. It's a great game for dipping in and quickly doing a level or two. Highly recommended, especially if you were a fan of the original game as it includes every bit of official content as well as some new stuff.

I also recently finished reading "Doom Guy", John Romero's autobiography which covers everything he's done right up to now.
Lots of good stuff about Wolfenstein and Doom, as well as the fracturing of the team around the time of Quake.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doom-Guy-Life-First-Person/dp/B0C47FFXQ5/ - Great read and worth picking up.

It's really made me want to go back and explore these older games some more. I think I'd like to work through the main id games from Catacomb 3D to Quake 2. Though I'm interested in checking out some of the other FPS games that are less well known.

On top of that I've taken an interest in mapping for these older games, which is something I've not dabbled with since they were new. Decided that Quake is a good place to start. 3D engine, but not too complex and it seems like a good place to start. First map I've been doing is a recreation of E1M1 from memory, mostly to learn the editor and get an idea of how to get a level from a basic sketch to something more detailed. I've got it all laid out and I'm going through it room by room to add the various layers to it. Basic geometry first, refine that, do a texture pass, items and enemies added, plenty of playtesting then finally a lighting pass. Just need to sit down and actually do it.

Anyone else ever made any maps for shooters?

[Cumberdanes]

Can’t we just go back to calling them Doom Clones? I hate the term Boomer Shooter.

[Jenuall]

I dabbled in making Doom/Quake levels back in the 90s but never got as far as making anything more than just messing around.

On that note - Romero himself is working on making Sigil 2 at the moment and I believe has been streaming his mapping progress on Twitch! I've not checked it out myself but when I get a chance I'm going to try and watch some of the streams back as I'm fascinated to see what the process is like

[jawa_]

...Anyone else ever made any maps for shooters?

I recall a GRcadian who was hugely into classic Doom and - I believe - used to make levels, too... I think it could have been <]:^D.

Fake edit: Yes, it was! <]:^D has loads of Doom map gameplay vids on their YouTube channel - click.

[Cheeky Devlin]

Can’t we just go back to calling them Doom Clones? I hate the term Boomer Shooter.

I don't care about the term, but I've changed the topic title if only because I'm bored talking about it.

ound.

On that note - Romero himself is working on making Sigil 2 at the moment and I believe has been streaming his mapping progress on Twitch! I've not checked it out myself but when I get a chance I'm going to try and watch some of the streams back as I'm fascinated to see what the process is like

Yeah I've lurked in the stream for it a few times. He hasn't been on in a week or so and I think he's finished all the maps. But it's cool that you can sit and watch his process.

I recall a GRcadian who was hugely into classic Doom and - I believe - used to make levels, too... I think it could have been <]:^D.

Fake edit: Yes, it was! <]:^D has loads of Doom map gameplay vids on their YouTube channel - click.

Nice. I'll check that out.

[Zilnad]

In my early youth, I used to dabble with the Doom 3 and Max Payne editors and found them both really interesting. I never made an entire level but it was fascinating seeing the 'building blocks' and learning just how much work goes into making even the simplest things, like a working door or cutscene trigger, work on command.

[Cheeky Devlin]

In my early youth, I used to dabble with the Doom 3 and Max Payne editors and found them both really interesting. I never made an entire level but it was fascinating seeing the 'building blocks' and learning just how much work goes into making even the simplest things, like a working door or cutscene trigger, work on command.

I was the same. Played around with the editors for Quake and Half-Life before. Not sure why I never really made anything as its not exactly difficult. I think not having always on Internet at the time really limited the amount of exposure I might otherwise have had to the community.

Quake is fairly easy to make for these days with plenty of modern mapping software. Been using one called TrenchBroom and it's really intuitive.

[Cheeky Devlin]

Romero is on right now working on one of the new maps if anyone wants to see his process. He's only just started on the map he's on so a good chance to jump in.

https://www.twitch.tv/theromero

Also I picked up the 2017 remaster of Blood: Fresh Supply. Never realised it had already been remastered, and by Night Dive no less. It's definitely not quite as featured as their more recent ones.
Controller support felt weird when I played it on my Deck, but it's another of the classics revisited.

[deathofcows]

I love Quake in particular. Recently finished Scourge of Armageddon for the first time which I didn't think was that great compared to base Quake or the MachineGunGames stuff (which I think might be peak Quake ). Music and level design in Scourge wasn't great, and the gun and enemy additions not very meaningful. Still fun to have more excuse to Quake though!

Currently playing around in Quake 2 64. After my disappointment with the actual Quake 2 campaign (compared with Quake 1 in general) I think I'm liking this more, with the snappier levels and subdued music. Fun!

[Cheeky Devlin]

I love Quake in particular. Recently finished Scourge of Armageddon for the first time which I didn't think was that great compared to base Quake or the MachineGunGames stuff (which I think might be peak Quake ). Music and level design in Scourge wasn't great, and the gun and enemy additions not very meaningful. Still fun to have more excuse to Quake though!

Currently playing around in Quake 2 64. After my disappointment with the actual Quake 2 campaign (compared with Quake 1 in general) I think I'm liking this more, with the snappier levels and subdued music. Fun!

Romero talks a bit about the expansion packs in his book.

The team that made Scourge was made up of 3 guys from 3D Realms that had just finished on Duke 3D who wanted to start their own company. So Romero hired them to do the expansion pack. They became Ritual Entertainment who went on to make Sin and Star Trek: Elite Force among other not too notable games.

Personally I've never really touched ANY of the Quake/Quake 2 add-ons. Not sure why.

Speaking of weird ports of Quake/Doom I recently found PSYDoom which is a PC source port that lets you play the PS1 version of the game with all the modern bells and whistles. Hi-res, mouse and keyboard control all with the coloured lighting and music that made the PS1 version stand out. It's still using the cut down Jaguar levels for the Doom 1 maps though, but that's just the nature of PS1 Doom.