The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC

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secretninja87
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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by secretninja87 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:51 am

HSH28 wrote:
Harry Bizzle wrote:My favorite games tend to be the ones with great stories.


There aren't any games with great stories.

Stories are a linear structure by their nature. Games (even what we call linearly designed ones) are interactive, they don't mesh well.


There are so many games with great stories - Bioshock being an obvious one. Gameplay was good but not fantastic, but the story and the world created sold it for me. Those audiotapes telling the backstory, Atlus giving backstory over the radio. Andrew Ryan? All these elements made it a fantastic immersive story that i wanted to complete regardless of the mediocre shooting mechanics. It's a very linear game that told a very effective story. With a good twist as well might i add.

And that's just one example. I've just finished playing Arkham City and with all the side stories and character bios and detail all over the world i found it more immersive and story driven than any of the animated movies.

Also i realise that's off topic. What i will say is that the Darkness was a decent game with characters and a story that made it above average.

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by HSH28 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:50 am

Frank wrote:Are you trying to say that choose-your-own-adventure books don't exist? They're not a linear experience...


I'm saying none of them have great stories.

Skarjo wrote:Without wanting to sound too much like an old man, I've clearly just played more games than you.


Been playing games for the good part of 25 years, at a conservative guess I've played well over 1500 games and currently own 500+ for consoles I have setup now and another 500+ for PC. You might have played more, but not that many more.

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by Wedgie » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:19 am

The Darkness's story is what drives me to finish the game. It also made me to go out and buy one graphic novel collection book. The only flaw about the game is the awful world war section where you go out and collect the darkness guns.

That section is a complete borefest and a serious mark on the overall game. I didn't have any problems with the fiddly gun play as I got used to it. The other downer is the awful lagfest that the multiplayer is.

I don't expect this sequel to be any better than the original. I'm hoping that I'm wrong.

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PostThe Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by $ilva $hadow » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:48 am

Hugo talking complete and utter grade A bullshit again.


The gameplay mechanics in The Darkness was bloody horrendously clumsy. I played most of the game without any of the powers because it was so gooseberry fool, only the gunplay was good. Storyline was what had me immersed and kept me going.

Also Deus Ex, gooseberry fool gameplay (gunplay) but amazing story that's driven forward by the players actions.


You need to stop moving goalposts to justify your nonsense hugo.

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PostThe Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by $ilva $hadow » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:57 am

It's time people, to play - 'predict an AI'.

The object of the game? Quote yourself and then reply to it with a robot response in order to win points. Here's some below


Silva - deus ex had a great storyline that is pushed forward by the person playing.

Robocop - that's not really a storyline, that's the players choice in gameplay, ergo stories don't belong in games.


Skarjo/brer - plot devices that gets emotionally attached really adds to the story and kept me going in the game.


Hubble telescope - that's not really story, that's a set piece, ergo it's not really a story, so the game would be better without a story. A story is a book, not a plot in a videogame.




You know I thought it would be easy to come out with robot responses but I don't really know how to change goalposts or have a grip on his reasoning and logic to actually be able to imitate him :lol:

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by HSH28 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:58 am

$ilva $hadow wrote:Also Deus Ex, gooseberry fool gameplay (gunplay) but amazing story that's driven forward by the players actions.

You need to stop moving goalposts to justify your nonsense hugo.


Caught you. Deus Ex had great gameplay, the guns were supposed to be like that because it wasn't about the players skill at aiming, but levelling your character, that doesn't make the gameplay bad.

I'm not moving the goalposts, they are firmly where they always have been. Story in games isn't anywhere near as important as people think it is.

If you want to consume a story, if thats your goal, then games are the last thing you should be interested in, its absolutely the worst medium for telling a story...at least in the way games try to tell stories (like films, tv or books).

The only story in a game thats in any way relevant is the story you create as a player, most of the games you are talking about don't even allow that, they are set in telling a scripted story in the same way as other media which just doesn't fit in with how games are consumed.

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PostThe Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by $ilva $hadow » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:02 pm

Lol you didn't catch anything.

Deus ex had gooseberry fool gunplay. Other parts of gameplay which consisted of sidequests, the main quests and developing your players skills were all story based. You played the game creating your own story within the story.


Gunplay was gooseberry fool. Everyone knows that. It's actually a fact that the gunplay is gooseberry fool and using the justification that they are meant to control like that doesn't mean the gunplay mechanics weren't gooseberry fool.

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PostThe Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by $ilva $hadow » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:05 pm

I didn't complete deus ex because of the freedom or the gunplay or anything like that.

I played and completed deus ex twice because of how good the story is, how emotionally involving it was and everything else was a bonus and added so much to the storyline and the gameplay overall.

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by HSH28 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:08 pm

That argument makes no sense, its like saying the gunplay in Fallout 3 was gooseberry fool. You are judging it by something that it doesn't try to do, its like saying Rage has gooseberry fool turn based mechanics.

And the game is too narrow to truely let you create your own stories, even Fallout 3 barely scratches the surface.

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by Don Ready » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:08 pm

So is the first Darkness is worth a playthrough?

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by Dante » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:08 pm

Don Ready wrote:So is the first Darkness is worth a playthrough?


Absolutely

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by Corazon de Leon » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:10 pm

Don Ready wrote:So is the first Darkness is worth a playthrough?


Definitely. The game is a little bit clumsy but the story is strawberry floating fantastic.

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by False » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:12 pm

HSH28 wrote:That argument makes no sense, its like saying the gunplay in Fallout 3 was gooseberry fool. You are judging it by something that it doesn't try to do, its like saying Rage has gooseberry fool turn based mechanics.


Gunplay in F3 was gooseberry fool and they did try to do it. They had to fix it in New Vegas.

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by $ilva $hadow » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:15 pm

HSH28 wrote:That argument makes no sense, its like saying the gunplay in Fallout 3 was gooseberry fool. You are judging it by something that it doesn't try to do, its like saying Rage has gooseberry fool turn based mechanics.

And the game is too narrow to truely let you create your own stories, even Fallout 3 barely scratches the surface.



Fallout 3 has Vats to aid in combat and the gunplay is atrocious without it.

Deus Ex has nothing to aid in combat.




You're approaching the debate with the view of "storylines have no place in videogames, it's all about gameplay". Whereas I'm approaching the debate with the view of "storylines can add depth to any medium, including that of video games. A really good video game can always be made better with a really good storyline".

Also Fallout 3 is a bit rubbish. 50 hours spent on Fallout 3 just so I can go through the quests and explore a wasteland and it still doesn't even match up to half of what New Vegas does. Storyline can make all the difference.

So when it comes to The Darkness, which was built around a solid storyline, why would people who loved that end up choosing gunplay over storyline in the sequel?

edit: the game is too narrow to let you create your own story? I always knew robots would never be able to dream, but I augment the games story with my own little stories in Deus Ex and Fallout 3. Deus Ex was strawberry floating fantastic with the ties you had to other characters, so when they died or did something, I felt compelled to react to their actions within the story. All of that adds to gameplay.

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by HSH28 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:33 pm

$ilva $hadow wrote:You're approaching the debate with the view of "storylines have no place in videogames, it's all about gameplay". Whereas I'm approaching the debate with the view of "storylines can add depth to any medium, including that of video games. A really good video game can always be made better with a really good storyline".


I just lost my reply to this, but it basically came down to...

Story ruins interactivity and interactivity ruins story.

Which is not to say you shouldn't have setting, characters and context in a game.

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by $ilva $hadow » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:37 pm

:lol: Story and interactivity are not mutually exclusive.

You're approaching the debate with "story and interactivity clash", whereas now I'm saying "storyline and interactivity are not mutually exclusive and don't have to clash", example? The Darkness, New Vegas, Deus Ex, Half Life 2.


Half Life is especially relevant as none of the story is forced onto you and you can gleam it from the game yourself by interacting with the scenery. The act of going up to the billboards, posters or whatever in the game and observing is the part that is interactive.

Last edited by $ilva $hadow on Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by False » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:38 pm

Hugo is such a damn busta :lol:

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by Wedgie » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:13 pm

I did create my own stories in Fallout 3. It keep me amusing after travelling over the wide open lands. In fact it's what kept me from finishing the damn game as I'm on the hunt for the bugger who stole my precious bottle of nuke coke.

40 hours later I haven't found him.

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Denster wrote:My phone messaged me yesterday after i'd encouraged him to download and play the RESi demo.


Super Intelligent Phones Are Here!!!! We are dooooomed!
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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by HSH28 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:34 pm

Wedgie wrote:I did create my own stories in Fallout 3. It keep me amusing after travelling over the wide open lands. In fact it's what kept me from finishing the damn game as I'm on the hunt for the bugger who stole my precious bottle of nuke coke.


Would I be right in saying that was far more interesting than the storylines the developers had written into the game?

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PostRe: The Darkness 2 - Autumn 2011 - PS3, 360, PC
by HSH28 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:39 pm

$ilva $hadow wrote:Half Life is especially relevant as none of the story is forced onto you and you can gleam it from the game yourself by interacting with the scenery. The act of going up to the billboards, posters or whatever in the game and observing is the part that is interactive.


Thats the world thats built around Half Life and yes its well designed and interesting world, but it doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with the story.

I don't think you play Half Life to see where the story is going, you play it to see the next encounter, environment, weapon, puzzle and even because it has great characters, but not really because the story drags you along.

You could replace the story in Half Life with anything and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to how good the game is.


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