The day the gaming industry died - E3 2010

Hero, question time; did you pay to go out there or did a publication/publisher pick up the bill?

TheTurnipKing wrote:

Shadow wrote:

rudderless wrote:

Harry Bizzle wrote:Tycho from Penny Arcade recently just made a very funny post about "women who are paid to tolerate you."


I pretty much agree with him. I'd find it very awkward indeed.

Yeah, it's very weird. I was speaking to another journo today and we were discussing people who have their pictures taken with these girls. Why? "Here's a picture of me with a woman who's way out of my league." It's all very odd.

Yeah I don't get that, when I've been with a few mates and we split up into twos to explore the show, we met back up later and I had about two dozen photos of some of the stands, hardware, cool stuff on display etc. They had about a hundred photos of them with every booth babe (in many of which they were creepily close to girls), I just don't get it. ¯\(°_o)/¯

That said, I did sleep with a booth babe I met at London Games Week a few years back.

You know, the guy in that strip actually looks like the friend I was talking about.



He's the purple power ranger in this shot... "friend" might be a bit much.. acquaintance.

It's weird you say all that Chris, just listened to Giantbomb(who are rather pro 360 usually) Vinny and Brad enjoyed the Sony show the most as they had the most interesting and relevant content. They also all feel Move is going to be a better product for gaming than Kinect.

I also feel people have undersold how important Valve developing on PS3 actually is.

They did big up the 3DS as much as anyone else too. So looking forward to 3DS

suzzopher wrote:It's weird you say all that Chris, just listened to Giantbomb(who are rather pro 360 usually) Vinny and Brad enjoyed the Sony show the most as they had the most interesting and relevant content. They also all feel Move is going to be a better product for gaming than Kinect.

Move's absolutely going to be better for core gamers than Kinect. It's more precise and its flexible enough to allow existing genres to use it without having to adjust the focus of the game.

BUT I don't really see what it brings to the table that's properly new. It's basically a more technically advanced version of the Wii. Microsoft can posit Kinect as a totally fresh experience - even as its launch line-up smacks of trying to appeal directly to the Wii audience rather than providing something completely different - and that's going to be an easier sell to the expanded market than Move.

Sites need to start looking past the core gamer at the bigger picture. Some gamers might personally prefer Move, but for families, Kinect is almost certainly the more attractive option. It could finally get MS the casual market it's wanted to snare for ages.

But I have a Wii for the expanded audience stuff, as do another 70million people on this planet. I don't see it being anywhere near the success Wii has been. Mostly because Microsoft do not have the talented designers for that audience. If Wii has taught us anything, it's that third parties don't get it when it comes to this audience(Ubi Soft and Just Dance aside). Dance Central could be great but Wii has Just Dance 2 coming this year. Those millions of Wii owners will stick with what they have and buy an £30 game over Kinect and an XBOX 360 to go with it. Fitness games? Wii has it covered. Games with characters that appeal to all? Wii has them. Microsoft would have been better positioned to sell Kinect on core gaming/non gaming functionality. Take something like Football Manager and Ruse as an example. Both games would fit Kinect perfectly and could at the same time bring in those casual gamers with the ease of getting into these core game genres. Microsoft's offerings have none of the charm associated with Wii. This is where they will fail.

Move will fail harder as again lacks the charm of Wii. But Move will certainly have studios getting Move into their games and make the experiences much more enriching. But it doesn't have the ease of use Kinect has to lure in casual via core gaming experiences.

Now if Microsoft had launched Kinect in 2006 ahead of Wii, we'd be having a different conversation, as it stands Wii has got to those people on the fence about games or jaded gamers, there really isn't an audience for either Move or Kinect in 2010. Certainly not the audience Microsoft and Sony would be aiming for.

Edit: I think Nintendo have seen that audience have maybe had enough too, hence it's turn around at E3 this year. Sales were down on Wii for the last 12 months, Nintendo knows that the pool of the expanded audience is getting dry, that is why they played their core gamer IPs hand this year. Generate huge software sales with established core franchises, whilst still making money on Wii Fit, Mario Kart, the ever green Wii software.

Nintendo know the industry better than anyone right now, if they pull back on the casuals, they pull back because they know the market isn't there.

All good points, but I've got a feeling Kinect will be bigger than you realise. And I think you're perhaps being a bit unfair on the launch line-up - they're fun games. Not all are great, and I wouldn't begin to pretend they were (Joy Ride was particularly disappointing for me) but there's some good stuff there and it's appealing in a way Wii was when it first came out. There's definitely a strong novelty factor, and that was a key part of the initial Wii success. Whether MS can maintain that - and pricing for Kinect will be so important in getting the tech out there in the first place - remains to be seen.

Like you said, though, it was interesting to see Nintendo's change of tack this year. If third-party support is dwindling, Wii can at least count on a strong run of first-party titles. Meanwhile, 3DS is wooing a wealth of development talent. Resi's graphics were seriously impressive and Snake Eater made some of the most impressive use of 3D I saw of any of the demos.

And Nintendogs (+ Cats) in 3D is adorable.

rudderless wrote:All good points, but I've got a feeling Kinect will be bigger than you realise. And I think you're perhaps being a bit unfair on the launch line-up - they're fun games. Not all are great, and I wouldn't begin to pretend they were (Joy Ride was particularly disappointing for me) but there's some good stuff there and it's appealing in a way Wii was when it first came out. There's definitely a strong novelty factor, and that was a key part of the initial Wii success. Whether MS can maintain that - and pricing for Kinect will be so important in getting the tech out there in the first place - remains to be seen.

Like you said, though, it was interesting to see Nintendo's change of tack this year. If third-party support is dwindling, Wii can at least count on a strong run of first-party titles. Meanwhile, 3DS is wooing a wealth of development talent. Resi's graphics were seriously impressive and Snake Eater made some of the most impressive use of 3D I saw of any of the demos.

And Nintendogs (+ Cats) in 3D is adorable.

We'll agree to disagree on Kinect, I smell bomba of the highest order(not as bad as Move's failure will be).

But I do want to chat about Nintendo with you. What I found fascinating is that not only did they say "here are games for you, gamers" on Wii, the line up of games on 3DS is as hardcore as game line ups can get. Look back at DS, Nintendo went casual day one. This time, I think the message is to get the core gamer day one as casuals are less likely to upgrade from their DS as soon as us gamers will. Nintendo will always be two steps ahead of the competition right now, and the noises of online integration, movie downloads, achievements etc speaks louder than anything of where the industry is going, it's funny the competition are going back 5 years.

If I were Mattrick or Kaz I would be shitting my pants at what Nintendo are going to do next.

Also no Vitality Sensor? What are they saving that for? Gamescom reveal for some software to hit the same time as Kinect/Move?

Nintendo will always be two steps ahead of the competition right now, and the noises of online integration, movie downloads, achievements etc speaks louder than anything of where the industry is going, it's funny the competition are going back 5 years.

If I were Mattrick or Kaz I would be shitting my pants at what Nintendo are going to do next

Those things are already on 360/PS3 and have been for some time, I don't understand your point.

Rik wrote:

Nintendo will always be two steps ahead of the competition right now, and the noises of online integration, movie downloads, achievements etc speaks louder than anything of where the industry is going, it's funny the competition are going back 5 years.

If I were Mattrick or Kaz I would be shitting my pants at what Nintendo are going to do next

Those things are already on 360/PS3 and have been for some time, I don't understand your point.

The fact both Sony and Microsoft neglacted these things from what we think will be their 2010 plan of attack is worrying. Microsoft could have upped the 360 friends list now old Live is dead or added more functionality to Live. Sony could have tried to at least catch up to Live circa 2006, but both dropped the ball. Sony for 3D bullshit and Microsoft for casual gaming guff.

Just like to add, I am running on 25mins sleep in the last 48 hours, my mind is buzzing with thoughts.

To be honest, it doesn't matter whether it's better or not. All that matters is that it's an entire market segment that Nintendo will no longer have to itself.

Between Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is gonna lose some market-share. The question is "how much" and "who to"?

TheTurnipKing wrote:To be honest, it doesn't matter whether it's better or not. All that matters is that it's an entire market segment that Nintendo will no longer have to itself.

Between Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is gonna lose some market-share. The question is "how much" and "who to"?

I don't they will. I honestly believe if Nintendo thought there was still a big pool of casuals out there waiting to jump in, they would have made that their focus.

suzzopher wrote:

TheTurnipKing wrote:To be honest, it doesn't matter whether it's better or not. All that matters is that it's an entire market segment that Nintendo will no longer have to itself.

Between Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is gonna lose some market-share. The question is "how much" and "who to"?

I don't they will. I honestly believe if Nintendo thought there was still a big pool of casuals out there waiting to jump in, they would have made that their focus.

I'm not saying that there are more users waiting to buy. I'm saying that some users are practically bound to migrate.

The PS3 is pretty well positioned, because of the media functionality. In this country though, we have a solid core of 360 owners... Some of them might well take go to Kinect if MS can get the price right.

TheTurnipKing wrote:

suzzopher wrote:

TheTurnipKing wrote:To be honest, it doesn't matter whether it's better or not. All that matters is that it's an entire market segment that Nintendo will no longer have to itself.

Between Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is gonna lose some market-share. The question is "how much" and "who to"?

I don't they will. I honestly believe if Nintendo thought there was still a big pool of casuals out there waiting to jump in, they would have made that their focus.

I'm not saying that there are more users waiting to buy. I'm saying that some users are practically bound to migrate.

I don't think they will do that either, I think Kinect will see a huge amount of 360 users purchase the unit. But I don't think the expanded audience will move from Wii to 360 due to Kinect.

suzzopher wrote:

TheTurnipKing wrote:

suzzopher wrote:

TheTurnipKing wrote:To be honest, it doesn't matter whether it's better or not. All that matters is that it's an entire market segment that Nintendo will no longer have to itself.

Between Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is gonna lose some market-share. The question is "how much" and "who to"?

I don't they will. I honestly believe if Nintendo thought there was still a big pool of casuals out there waiting to jump in, they would have made that their focus.

I'm not saying that there are more users waiting to buy. I'm saying that some users are practically bound to migrate.

I don't think they will do that either, I think Kinect will see a huge amount of 360 users purchase the unit. But I don't think the expanded audience will move from Wii to 360 due to Kinect.

Not all of them will. But some of them might well. Say, you have a Wii and a 360. Trading in the Wii against Kinect might well make it a cheap lateral move, only you get better visuals into the bargain.

TheTurnipKing wrote:

suzzopher wrote:

TheTurnipKing wrote:

suzzopher wrote:

TheTurnipKing wrote:To be honest, it doesn't matter whether it's better or not. All that matters is that it's an entire market segment that Nintendo will no longer have to itself.

Between Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is gonna lose some market-share. The question is "how much" and "who to"?

I don't they will. I honestly believe if Nintendo thought there was still a big pool of casuals out there waiting to jump in, they would have made that their focus.

I'm not saying that there are more users waiting to buy. I'm saying that some users are practically bound to migrate.

I don't think they will do that either, I think Kinect will see a huge amount of 360 users purchase the unit. But I don't think the expanded audience will move from Wii to 360 due to Kinect.

Not all of them will. But some of them might well. Say, you have a Wii and a 360. Trading in the Wii against Kinect might well make it a cheap lateral move, only you get better visuals into the bargain.

Yeah I see your point on that one, but it is Wii only owners in the expanded audience I thought you meant.

suzzopher wrote:Also no Vitality Sensor? What are they saving that for? Gamescom reveal for some software to hit the same time as Kinect/Move?

Did you see the Ubisoft conference? It's almost as if Nintendo just conceived that to see who would be daft enough to copy them first, and it looks like Ubisoft won

suzzopher to rudderless wrote:But I do want to chat about Nintendo with you.

Rejected

rudderless wrote:
BUT I don't really see what it brings to the table that's properly new. It's basically a more technically advanced version of the Wii. Microsoft can posit Kinect as a totally fresh experience - even as its launch line-up smacks of trying to appeal directly to the Wii audience rather than providing something completely different - and that's going to be an easier sell to the expanded market than Move.
.

I can't agree with that, Kinect is a more advanced Eye toy, surely? It's an evolution, not a revolution, in the same way Move is.

suzzopher wrote:

suzzopher to rudderless wrote:But I do want to chat about Nintendo with you.

Rejected

Sorry dude, I'm busy packing.

Vitality Sensor? Dunno, maybe they've shelved that one. Classic distancing tactic from Reggie when it was first announced - "Mr. Iwata's Vitality Sensor" - though it may be that they simply decided not to show it at E3, figuring they needed to approach the core gamer this time.

That video at the end of the conference was just brilliant. I was chatting with EG's Christian Donlan and he was saying it's incredible that you have three hugely powerful executives making a silly video, but also that you know them and they really have strong personalities, enough so that people - even Nintendo themselves - can make jokes about. It's hard to say the same for MS and Sony.

As for Kinect, I'm excited about the tech mainly because my son and wife will really be able to get into it, perhaps in a way they can't currently do. James tries to play stuff like Mario Galaxy, but it's not really that comfortable for him (interestingly, he can handle a GameCube controller far better than the separate nunchuk and remote, which is perhaps why he prefers playing Sunshine to Galaxy). Take the controller out of the equation entirely and you've got an interface a four-year old can easily get the hang of. I see it as an ideal entry point for him and I'm sure my wife will get use out of it too.

I interviewed Kudo Tsunoda the other day and he was really great to chat to, actually. Genuinely interesting chap, and boy can he talk.

I was looking forward to Sony's conference but was disappointed that The Last Guardian wasn't featured. Twisted Metal looks quite fun but didn't feel big enough for a final surprise - I think that's a franchise that again resonates with a US audience more. If we'd seen thatgamecompany's Journey and some interesting PSN titles as part of the conference, then I'd have enjoyed its showing much more. As it was, I think perhaps the most successful part of the briefing was the live demo of Sorcery. The potion-shaking and the light changing colour when it's ready was a lovely touch.

Samuel_1 wrote:

rudderless wrote:
BUT I don't really see what it brings to the table that's properly new. It's basically a more technically advanced version of the Wii. Microsoft can posit Kinect as a totally fresh experience - even as its launch line-up smacks of trying to appeal directly to the Wii audience rather than providing something completely different - and that's going to be an easier sell to the expanded market than Move.
.

I can't agree with that, Kinect is a more advanced Eye toy, surely? It's an evolution, not a revolution, in the same way Move is.

It's a VASTLY more advanced EyeToy. And most games don't actually have you on screen like EyeToy does. Also: voice recognition. If it's an evolution it's a large evolutionary stride.