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CrystalGipsy
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PostThe dead job market.
by CrystalGipsy » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:51 pm

Mommy wrote:I've been unemployed for 1 day in 24 years. Lucky I suppose, but also had the sense to do a proper apprenticeship as a youth. Proper grounding helps too. People seem to be reluctant to leave education these days and end up educated to the gunnels but with no real-world experience. The country needs more apprenticeships.


The vfx company I work for is in the process of setting apprenticeships up, especially with the way uni fees are going we will have less people to choose from.

It's cocktail time!. Then again when isn't it.
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Turboman
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Turboman » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:55 pm

Ecno wrote:
tnman wrote:
John Galt wrote:If you want a good job after uni you need to be proactive about it right from that start: there are tonnes of careers events, presentations, networking evenings and internship opportunities available but most people are too lazy or naively arrogant to pursue them.


Perhaps to people doing a management or business degree, yes. For people like me who have come out of the school of English Literature, there are (or were, at least, at my uni) strawberry float all opportunities in that regard. It would have been pointless going to one of the networking events at my uni's management school, as the businesses that showed up were all hot-shot London corporations looking to hoover up the latest business studies pie chart men and women.

I've been looking for work since graduating in July, and, barring a temping stint at M&S at Christmas, have found very little. I've had interviews, and have been progressed to final stages of grad schemes like many others, but have just failed at the final hurdle. I am prepared. I am not naive and arrogant, and I am sure as strawberry float not lazy.

jambot wrote:As an employer I can honestly say my requirement for liberal arts graduates/school leavers is massively over supplied, and my requirement for numerate graduates/school leavers massively under supplied. I have jobs I can't fill because the quality of candidates is so piss poor - both in education and attitude. Experience I can provide, but attitude adjustment just isn't worth the investment.


What jobs are you looking to fill? And do they honestly require a degree in Maths or a science, or just a general and solid understanding of numeracy?



From my experience employers aren't looking for people with management degrees they're looking for smart interesting individuals with good academic track records, graduate in take at my work in the last few years (that I remember)

Law
Ancient History & Archeology
Maths
Economics & Business Management
French & Spanish
Russian & French
Biology

and more that I can't think of.

This.
Businesses, especially the "hot-shots" in London are looking for a diverse work-force. Many of them offer IQ/personality like tests as part of their intake criteria. As long as you have a decent degree and a personality, you should have a chance of at least getting an interview.

Errkal wrote:It is amasing how people dont seem to be abel to do that.
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Squinty
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Squinty » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:01 pm

Kinda hoping I still have a job by this time next year. Work is undergoing a massive restructuring and it'll probably get worse.

As much as it drives me up the wall, I'd really miss my job and I'd be lost without it. I'd feel guilty about not having to go to work and the possibility of being jobless scares me shitless :lol: :fp:

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Dark Ritual
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Dark Ritual » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:08 pm

I find it hard to choose. When in Brighton, I found two jobs in the space of a few months and now back in my hometown I found a pretty sweet job in Marketing (with a company that turns over Millions) with only 4 weeks on Jobseekers and it being the first job I got interviewed for. With no degree.

But obviously some areas are different, but that's been my experience.

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John Galt
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by John Galt » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:17 pm

Turboman wrote:
Ecno wrote:
tnman wrote:
John Galt wrote:If you want a good job after uni you need to be proactive about it right from that start: there are tonnes of careers events, presentations, networking evenings and internship opportunities available but most people are too lazy or naively arrogant to pursue them.


Perhaps to people doing a management or business degree, yes. For people like me who have come out of the school of English Literature, there are (or were, at least, at my uni) strawberry float all opportunities in that regard. It would have been pointless going to one of the networking events at my uni's management school, as the businesses that showed up were all hot-shot London corporations looking to hoover up the latest business studies pie chart men and women.

I've been looking for work since graduating in July, and, barring a temping stint at M&S at Christmas, have found very little. I've had interviews, and have been progressed to final stages of grad schemes like many others, but have just failed at the final hurdle. I am prepared. I am not naive and arrogant, and I am sure as strawberry float not lazy.

jambot wrote:As an employer I can honestly say my requirement for liberal arts graduates/school leavers is massively over supplied, and my requirement for numerate graduates/school leavers massively under supplied. I have jobs I can't fill because the quality of candidates is so piss poor - both in education and attitude. Experience I can provide, but attitude adjustment just isn't worth the investment.


What jobs are you looking to fill? And do they honestly require a degree in Maths or a science, or just a general and solid understanding of numeracy?



From my experience employers aren't looking for people with management degrees they're looking for smart interesting individuals with good academic track records, graduate in take at my work in the last few years (that I remember)

Law
Ancient History & Archeology
Maths
Economics & Business Management
French & Spanish
Russian & French
Biology

and more that I can't think of.

This.
Businesses, especially the "hot-shots" in London are looking for a diverse work-force. Many of them offer IQ/personality like tests as part of their intake criteria. As long as you have a decent degree and a personality, you should have a chance of at least getting an interview.


Yeah, this is completely true and if you ask any of the companies themselves they will tell you the same thing.

What kind of thing do you want to go in to tnman? If it's journalism then I'm certain there would have been opportunities for you to get some experience whilst at uni. If not then the above stands for a good number of graduate positions. You say yourself that you've gotten through a lot of the assessment stages for grad schemes so either you've changed your mind as to what it is that you want to do (you wouldn't get past the first stage if you didn't have the right degree), or there's something else that's holding you back.

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satriales
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by satriales » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:27 pm

I failed university (which never goes down well in job interviews) but I just started a new job this week. :D
Keep applying for every job you think you want to do and then you'll be offered one eventually.

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Dark Ritual
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Dark Ritual » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:35 pm

Vnh Sat!

Something Fishy

PostRe: The dead job market.
by Something Fishy » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:57 am

Certainly is tough but i think this thread shows that once you have experience it gives you a huge advantage.

I think the difficult thing is getting that experience right now. I reckon going down the voluntary route to show what you can do and gain skills and experience is a good one in the current climate.

I'm even looking at doing it after 20 years in my field as my eyes are getting worse all the time and I'll have to change direction so am looking at helping the school for free to expand my lecturing experience into teaching.

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Red
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Red » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:06 am

Dig Dug wrote: But yes all you people who have jobs I hope you are really grateful for what you have because I envy you.


I'm not grateful, I earned my job and I don't have to thank anyone for it except myself. I am glad to have it though.

It is difficult, I've had a couple of interviews for new jobs so I can't really complain, but when I asked for feedback on one job I didn't get interview for they replied saying over 370 people had applied so although I was a strong candidate there were just people who were better. They gave me good CV feedback so definitely worth asking for any you get rejected from.

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tnman
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by tnman » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:37 am

John Galt wrote:What kind of thing do you want to go in to tnman? If it's journalism then I'm certain there would have been opportunities for you to get some experience whilst at uni. If not then the above stands for a good number of graduate positions. You say yourself that you've gotten through a lot of the assessment stages for grad schemes so either you've changed your mind as to what it is that you want to do (you wouldn't get past the first stage if you didn't have the right degree), or there's something else that's holding you back.


Yeah, I've got experience, just not always enough. In journalism at the moment you either become an unpaid intern with a job-carrot on a stick dangled in front of you for however many months, or you're told you still don't have enough experience. I've had the latter most often - it's the old catch 22: can't get a job without experience, can't get experience without a job. I've had internships, work experience, actual jobs in the field, but it's not cutting the mustard. In fact, the major feedback from an interview I had was "carry on, you're really good, we just hired people with more office experience than you. It's a matter of being in the right place at the right time".

The thing holding me back is location - I'm not prepared to go anywhere, and especially not London.

As for comments about how employers want people from any discipline, that's still the exception and not the rule. A lot of the best in The Times Top 100 Grad Employers demand a science or mathematical degree. A job my best friend has just got demanded this, but he's still being completely re-trained. This I find odd, as why couldn't they let someone like me apply and train me if successful? I could still take the psychometric and numerical tests to prove I can add up.

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Seven
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Seven » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:09 am

Being deaf, and refusing to do any cleaner jobs again (because I got ill so easily - which made me got fired from my last job which was cleaner)) makes it hard for me to get job... I'm still keeping at it though, but I fear if I don't move out I may be unemployment for long, long time. Eh, not like it'll stop me searching for job.

I'm just grateful I'm in situation where money isn't issue (I pay bills fine), just sick of free time at times (basically too much of good thing). Will try to get voluntary job next month so I don't have to stay at home all day searching for work and play games in all of my free time.

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Dblock
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PostThe dead job market.
by Dblock » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:58 am

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:
Dblock wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
gaminglegend wrote:I'm going to be a banana split and say there are jobs there if you want them, it's just you may have to suck it up and do something that you think is "beneath" you for a while.


There obviously isn't. I've been looking for the last 2 years non stop and found strawberry float all.


That is taking the piss. 2 years!?

You just clearly don't want a job. 2 years is mental .


It took me 3 years. Now I help others into work. And believe me, I wanted a job. I spent two of those years as a volunteer.

What is taking the piss is your trolling.


No, I'm not trolling at all. I just never came across someone who wanted a job desperately be jobless for two years. I have come plenty across that think they want any Job but in reality they don't .

I know some people who barely speak English and find jobs left and right . I find it hard to believe someone who is educated and British can't find none in two years .

Sorry if I don't believe that you really wanted a job for 3 years.

''Saying it's because I was controlling you and making you sad when actually I just asked you to wear some trousers'' :lol: :lol:
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SEP
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by SEP » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:14 am

If I didn't want to work, then volunteering for 2 years was a bad idea.

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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Corazon de Leon » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:16 am

Red wrote:
Dig Dug wrote: But yes all you people who have jobs I hope you are really grateful for what you have because I envy you.


I'm not grateful, I earned my job and I don't have to thank anyone for it except myself. I am glad to have it though.


I agree with that. I was awesome enough to get my current position and I'm happy with it. :shifty:

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Meep
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Meep » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:53 am

I do not consider a lot of jobs to be 'beneath me', in fact I am currently working a job I am vastly overqualified for and I think I am luck to have it, so there. I had a friend who actually had the gall to turn down a job, despite have no other offers and barely having any GCSEs. Needless to say, I do not talk with them much any more. Someone who thinks the world owes them a living is not worthy of my respect.

I graduated 2010 and since then had been surviving on a combination of a permament part-time job (which I loath because it is is a minimum wage post more suitable for a school leaver and so naturally bores the strawberry float out of someone with my education) and various temporary positions which, to be honest, have not been much better than my permanent job.

Of course, in the interim I have also been attending night classes and have managed to bolster my CV somewhat. Doesn't seem to have helped much.

My biggest fear is that when the economy recovers people will just start hiring new graduates again and everyone who graduated during it will be stuck in the slow lane. This seriously pisses me off. I suffered from severe dyslexia and managed to overcome that, but not soon enough that my grades at GCSE and A-Level were not affected, but I still then comitted to resitting exams in order to get into uni. After all my personal effort to think that my chances in life could be dashed by pure luck of the draw is infuriating.

Of course, I think my situation is at least partly to do with where I live. No doubt if I left Northern Ireland and went to live in London I would find a job much more easily, however I'm far too attached to my family to ever do that.

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Eighthours
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Eighthours » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:25 am

Move to Bristol.

Yeah, things are getting a little tighter here, but my wife works for a recruitment agency and there are still fuckloads of jobs around in this city. As for the rest of the country, if you're not getting interviews despite applying for loads of jobs, there is one obvious thing that needs sorting: your CV. There are very, very few people who can write a decent CV - learn to do this and you're IMMEDIATELY waaaaaaaaay up the list. A decent CV doesn't just rely on experience, it's also how the information is presented. Would much rather interview someone whose CV reads well and appears to have a personality (while being professional) than some boring jobsworth who's had 5 long-term jobs, all of them seemingly the most boring things imaginable, presented in a dull-as-ditchwater way. Your CV is your foot in the door. If you have a well-written one, you WILL get interviews. Even if your experience doesn't seem to suggest that you'd be an automatic fit for the job.

Remember that even if there are 370 people applying for a vacancy, a serious amount of them won't be even mildly capable. Or literate. Or non-serial-killer material. Realistically, once the joke CVs are in the bin you'll be up against 10-20 other people, which are far better odds. Also, while it's tempting to apply for everything, only go for vacancies that you'll actually be able to do. Finally, if you're not going through some horrible automated online application form (they suck), personalise the application. Not through *shudder* head shots or anything gooseberry fool like that, but a professionally written cover letter.

I hope that some of this helps. It's not about applying for everything, it's about applying smartly.

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Meep
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Location: Belfast

PostRe: The dead job market.
by Meep » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:27 am

I actually had a friend's mother, who does advise on that sort of thing, look at my CV. She said it was pretty well put together, seeing as I had already consulted guides on that sort of thing while drafting it up.

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Frank
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Frank » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:33 am

Eighthours wrote:Finally, if you're not going through some horrible automated online application form (they suck), personalise the application. Not through *shudder* head shots or anything gooseberry fool like that, but a professionally written cover letter.


Christ, the online applications are the absolute worst thing about finding jobs at the moment. Why have I wasted all this time writing the perfect CV, if every bloody employer wants me to copy and paste exactly what I've written in the CV into separate stupid boxes in separate bloody windows. Don't be lazy, just read the sodding thing. It's genuinely baffling that they expect everyone to waste two hours filling in each of the 13 pointless bloody segments.

I reckon that's probably why they do it, actually. The only people who can be bothered to work through the whole depressing process are the ones who actually want a job.

Says a lot that I've actually had more luck sticking my CV on Monster (a few days after I posted it someone who employs contractors for Ford got in touch to say that Ford's chief engineer wanted a graduate for their latches department in a few months, and as I've got experience with latches, would I be interested?) than I have with these stupid online application graduate schemes, though.

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SEP
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by SEP » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:35 am

Don't get me started on Online applications. Every time someone comes in to do one, I cringe because I know I'm going to spend the next hour navigating around a poorly-designed form asking inane strawberry floating questions.

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Eighthours
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PostRe: The dead job market.
by Eighthours » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:36 am

Frank wrote:
Eighthours wrote:Finally, if you're not going through some horrible automated online application form (they suck), personalise the application. Not through *shudder* head shots or anything gooseberry fool like that, but a professionally written cover letter.


Christ, the online applications are the absolute worst thing about finding jobs at the moment. Why have I wasted all this time writing the perfect CV, if every bloody employer wants me to copy and paste exactly what I've written in the CV into separate stupid boxes in separate bloody windows. Don't be lazy, just read the sodding thing. It's genuinely baffling that they expect everyone to waste two hours filling in each of the 13 pointless bloody segments.

I reckon that's probably why they do it, actually. The only people who can be bothered to work through the whole depressing process are the ones who actually want a job.

Says a lot that I've actually had more luck sticking my CV on Monster (a few days after I posted it someone who employs contractors for Ford got in touch to say that Ford's chief engineer wanted a graduate for their latches department in a few months, and as I've got experience with latches, would I be interested?) than I have with these stupid online application graduate schemes, though.


Your theory is indeed why some companies like those hideous online applications. There are so many people out there who just spam their CVs to every Tom, Dick and Harry.


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