The Work Thread

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Lotus
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Lotus » Fri May 18, 2018 10:55 am

I don't mean they're not nice people, just unpleasant to work around if they're always ill. It's one thing to have a cough, but if she's been sick she really should go home, regardless of the sickness record.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Fri May 18, 2018 11:00 am

I agree she should go home, but she really can’t now. Once you come into the office (for however long) it will count as a further absence if you leave early and will completely screw her sickness record over. She was worried about the extra day on the Bradford factor, going home now would really ramp her score up.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Frank » Fri May 18, 2018 11:35 am

Anyone on here clued up with contracting? :shifty:

I've just got a job offer from the company I used to work at, but rather than a permenant position it's a contractor role. I don't have a company set up or anything, so are there any easy-to-follow guides online for what I need to do? I know a little bit about company house from what I did with the Prince's Trust, but the first thing I've just been looking at also mentions a "Memorandum of Association", which I haven't got the faintest idea about...

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by I Believe In Stool Bloke » Fri May 18, 2018 12:28 pm

Moggy wrote:
Lotus wrote:
Moggy wrote:The lady who sits next to me has been off most of the work with a bug, currently sounds like she is coughing up a lung and has already been sick today (luckily not anywhere near the desk!).

She is in because she’s worried about her sickness record.

Thanks Bradford Factor! I am really enjoying sitting next to the living dead and am looking forward to catching this disease myself! What a successful system it is!

Is she the one with banana split rot? Your colleagues sound like a pleasant bunch. :dread:


No, we all got moved around a few weeks ago and so crazy lady isn’t anywhere near me now.

I am not sure that a cold and sickness bug makes somebody unpleasant. The problem is a stupid HR system that is forcing people into work ill. :lol:

Maybe your manager should do their job properly and send her home for being unfit to work?

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by I Believe In Stool Bloke » Fri May 18, 2018 12:38 pm

Moggy wrote:I agree she should go home, but she really can’t now. Once you come into the office (for however long) it will count as a further absence if you leave early and will completely screw her sickness record over. She was worried about the extra day on the Bradford factor, going home now would really ramp her score up.

Missed this post.

It certainly shouldn't count as a further sickness if you get sent home (which she should have been at the return to work interview). That's definitely either a misunderstanding of the policy or a bizarre and awful aspect of it unique to your company.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Fri May 18, 2018 12:52 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Moggy wrote:I agree she should go home, but she really can’t now. Once you come into the office (for however long) it will count as a further absence if you leave early and will completely screw her sickness record over. She was worried about the extra day on the Bradford factor, going home now would really ramp her score up.

Missed this post.

It certainly shouldn't count as a further sickness if you get sent home (which she should have been at the return to work interview). That's definitely either a misunderstanding of the policy or a bizarre and awful aspect of it unique to your company.


It’s how it works and it is how our managers have been told to deal with sickness.

If you are off for a day or two and then come back into the office, then any subsequent time off will count as a separate absence. I have heard managers telling people this before, they have to count it as a separate period once you come back into the office. A few managers have turned a blind eye if the person leaves the office again quickly enough, but once you have been in for a few hours, their hands are tied.

It’s a terrible system that only results in diseases being spread around.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Fri May 18, 2018 12:53 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lotus wrote:
Moggy wrote:The lady who sits next to me has been off most of the work with a bug, currently sounds like she is coughing up a lung and has already been sick today (luckily not anywhere near the desk!).

She is in because she’s worried about her sickness record.

Thanks Bradford Factor! I am really enjoying sitting next to the living dead and am looking forward to catching this disease myself! What a successful system it is!

Is she the one with banana split rot? Your colleagues sound like a pleasant bunch. :dread:


No, we all got moved around a few weeks ago and so crazy lady isn’t anywhere near me now.

I am not sure that a cold and sickness bug makes somebody unpleasant. The problem is a stupid HR system that is forcing people into work ill. :lol:

Maybe your manager should do their job properly and send her home for being unfit to work?


Our manager is not in the office today, a deputy manager is in but doesn’t sit that close to us and the sick lady is too scared of the “Bradford factor score!” to ask to leave.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Qikzmas » Fri May 18, 2018 12:55 pm

The culture we live in where you get punished for being sick is so ridiculous. How did we let it get like this? If you're sick you shouldn't have to work and you shouldn't be punished, a it's not fair on you as you feel worse and b you spread your germs to everyone else.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Karl » Fri May 18, 2018 1:00 pm

I forgot that Ob is a Bradford Factor apologist. :lol: ;)

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Lotus » Fri May 18, 2018 1:02 pm

In my experience it's really down to the company you work for and how much trust they have in their staff. Thankfully my current place is very much of the view that if you're ill you shouldn't really be in, and can probably work from home just fine, but if you need to not work at all, so be it. They're also very gracious when it comes to long-term sick, should people need it. I understand why people are reluctant to stay off though, even with understanding policies like this.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Fri May 18, 2018 1:12 pm

Qikz wrote:The culture we live in where you get punished for being sick is so ridiculous. How did we let it get like this? If you're sick you shouldn't have to work and you shouldn't be punished, a it's not fair on you as you feel worse and b you spread your germs to everyone else.


I wouldn’t mind if they targeted people who were suspicious (ringing in most Monday’s for example!). But this blanket suspicion on everyone is a horrible way of doing things.

The Bradford factor fails on two counts imo.

Firstly it punishes those who are genuinely sick, the paranoia people have over the score is frightening and results in them forcing themselves into work while they are sick. The sickness is then just spread around to other people, who then force themselves into work etc etc. Maybe the company saves on overall sick days, but I bet productivity isn’t too high once a bug has gone around.

Secondly, in spite of the above, it also encourages more unnecessary sick time. If you are sick (or if you are pretending to be sick!) then it is pointless just having one day off, you might as well have 2 or 3 days to make sure you are fully over it, or to enjoy lazing around watching TV. It’s the absence count that really hurts you, the duration is slightly more irrelevant and so once you are off work, you might as well stay off for longer than you would have.

It’s a terrible system. :lol:

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Green Gecko » Fri May 18, 2018 2:12 pm

Frank wrote:Anyone on here clued up with contracting? :shifty:

I've just got a job offer from the company I used to work at, but rather than a permenant position it's a contractor role. I don't have a company set up or anything, so are there any easy-to-follow guides online for what I need to do? I know a little bit about company house from what I did with the Prince's Trust, but the first thing I've just been looking at also mentions a "Memorandum of Association", which I haven't got the faintest idea about...

I think you mean articles of association, but anyway, if you go through online registration with companies house and pay the much cheaper fee that way (15 snoops I believe) you can just adopt the standard articles which are basically a template upon which most simple companies are formed. I can probably step this through with you if that helps?

However, you will need to then process (1)(a) directors payrol using payroll software or (b) draw dividends (or both) and (2) keep thorough and proper accounts for the entire time that the company is trading and maintain these records with HMRC and companies house. It's not as hard or as complicated as it sounds once you get your head around the terminology but there are heavy fines if you fail to file in time and virtually no valid excuses besides serious health issues.

If you want less hassle you may want to look at a service like Crunch Accounting with a monthly fee and simply add this to your day rate or use an umbrella company that processes your payroll and takes of tax deductible expenses from your tax liability meaning you effectively get paid for those too. These solutions basically facilitate or deal entirely with your tax liability for you so you have nothing to worry about except doing the job and submitting your timeheets and expense receipts on time.

If you want to do entirely your own accounts which probably isn't worth it unless you really are running a business with loads of transactions and expense like mine then the best accounting software for you would be FreeAgent (I'm not biased here as I actually use Xero which is deliberate overkill).

Bear in mind you have an existing job your tax is going to be basic rate which is 20% until HMRC either issue a new tax code (coding notice) or refund it (I was refunded about £500 a year later), so you should contact them the day you start the job to get this corrected. If you run your own company with directors payroll then you can probably pay the correct amount of tax directly even before you get a coding notice as HMRC won't care provided you are paying the correct tax (this assume that at no point are you earning money from two jobs at the same time, you can also work around this by putting some tax liability aside in case you receive a tax bill next tax year because you or your company underpaid).

I found using an umbrella company relatively painless, the service I used was Exchequer Solutions, but they did short me on one or two small travel expenses and don't expect to claim anything that is really plant and machinery like power tools (I saw some builder types doing this, why they didn't have a limited company or go sole trader I have no idea). I didn't have any long term tax problems although I think maybe I didn't submit this form or that form or the umbrella company didn't about some £15 tax relief or whatever, I can't remember anymore as it was years ago.

You also want to consider that the conservative government are currently on assault over the contracting profession. Basically if you are only contracting for one company they want to consider that employment meaning that the client is meant to pay national insurance and pension etc, where half the attraction of contractors to clients is that there are no ties and no tax liabilities or employment rights (good or bad thing). So will need to do some other random work to avoid being caught in something called an IR32 conflict, you will also need to advertise your company as a business and not just effectively a shell company. Maybe set up a few fiverr gigs even if you don't do anything and do some design stuff for some friends of friends etc, make sure you haven the proper documents like quotes and invoices, bank statements etc.

You can also avoid that using an umbrella company. HMRC are still cool with them I believe, at least for now, because they don't care provided all the tax is being paid (I think you also pay employees national insurance if you set up a directors payroll so there's that solution too).

You would also need a business bank account for a company, you can't use your personal bank account for a company (but you can use personal banking for sole trader or both). I've heard both Barclays and Santander are good.

Basically pay ALL THE TAX and you'll be fine.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by DML » Fri May 18, 2018 2:30 pm

The Bradford Factor sounds like a gooseberry fool local version of the X Factor.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Fri May 18, 2018 2:46 pm

DML wrote:The Bradford Factor sounds like a gooseberry fool local version of the X Factor.


It’s a Pointless system that ends up creating a Benchmark score for sickness that people are supposed to Chase. Rather than making people feel like they are All Together Now it just annoys and frightens people.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Frank » Fri May 18, 2018 3:11 pm

Green Gecko wrote:
Frank wrote:Anyone on here clued up with contracting? :shifty:

I've just got a job offer from the company I used to work at, but rather than a permenant position it's a contractor role. I don't have a company set up or anything, so are there any easy-to-follow guides online for what I need to do? I know a little bit about company house from what I did with the Prince's Trust, but the first thing I've just been looking at also mentions a "Memorandum of Association", which I haven't got the faintest idea about...


I think you mean articles of association, but anyway, if you go through online registration with companies house and pay the much cheaper fee that way (15 snoops I believe) you can just adopt the standard articles which are basically a template upon which most simple companies are formed. I can probably step this through with you if that helps?

However, you will need to then process (1)(a) directors payrol using payroll software or (b) draw dividends (or both) and (2) keep thorough and proper accounts for the entire time that the company is trading and maintain these records with HMRC and companies house. It's not as hard or as complicated as it sounds once you get your head around the terminology but there are heavy fines if you fail to file in time and virtually no valid excuses besides serious health issues.

If you want less hassle you may want to look at a service like Crunch Accounting with a monthly fee and simply add this to your day rate or use an umbrella company that processes your payroll and takes of tax deductible expenses from your tax liability meaning you effectively get paid for those too. These solutions basically facilitate or deal entirely with your tax liability for you so you have nothing to worry about except doing the job and submitting your timeheets and expense receipts on time.

If you want to do entirely your own accounts which probably isn't worth it unless you really are running a business with loads of transactions and expense like mine then the best accounting software for you would be FreeAgent (I'm not biased here as I actually use Xero which is deliberate overkill).

Bear in mind you have an existing job your tax is going to be basic rate which is 20% until HMRC either issue a new tax code (coding notice) or refund it (I was refunded about £500 a year later), so you should contact them the day you start the job to get this corrected. If you run your own company with directors payroll then you can probably pay the correct amount of tax directly even before you get a coding notice as HMRC won't care provided you are paying the correct tax (this assume that at no point are you earning money from two jobs at the same time, you can also work around this by putting some tax liability aside in case you receive a tax bill next tax year because you or your company underpaid).

I found using an umbrella company relatively painless, the service I used was Exchequer Solutions, but they did short me on one or two small travel expenses and don't expect to claim anything that is really plant and machinery like power tools (I saw some builder types doing this, why they didn't have a limited company or go sole trader I have no idea). I didn't have any long term tax problems although I think maybe I didn't submit this form or that form or the umbrella company didn't about some £15 tax relief or whatever, I can't remember anymore as it was years ago.

You also want to consider that the conservative government are currently on assault over the contracting profession. Basically if you are only contracting for one company they want to consider that employment meaning that the client is meant to pay national insurance and pension etc, where half the attraction of contractors to clients is that there are no ties and no tax liabilities or employment rights (good or bad thing). So will need to do some other random work to avoid being caught in something called an IR32 conflict, you will also need to advertise your company as a business and not just effectively a shell company. Maybe set up a few fiverr gigs even if you don't do anything and do some design stuff for some friends of friends etc, make sure you haven the proper documents like quotes and invoices, bank statements etc.

You can also avoid that using an umbrella company. HMRC are still cool with them I believe, at least for now, because they don't care provided all the tax is being paid (I think you also pay employees national insurance if you set up a directors payroll so there's that solution too).

You would also need a business bank account for a company, you can't use your personal bank account for a company (but you can use personal banking for sole trader or both). I've heard both Barclays and Santander are good.


Basically pay ALL THE TAX and you'll be fine.


Thanks GG :wub: I've been reading up on a few of the things you've mentioned, so I think I've got a vague understanding of it all now! Found the templates for the Articles of Association, too! The problem now is I go to Companies House to try and set up as a company, and all the names I want are taken :slol: Someone give me some inspiration pls!

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Jenu-All I Want For Christmas » Fri May 18, 2018 3:41 pm

Frank wrote:
Green Gecko wrote:
Frank wrote:Anyone on here clued up with contracting? :shifty:

I've just got a job offer from the company I used to work at, but rather than a permenant position it's a contractor role. I don't have a company set up or anything, so are there any easy-to-follow guides online for what I need to do? I know a little bit about company house from what I did with the Prince's Trust, but the first thing I've just been looking at also mentions a "Memorandum of Association", which I haven't got the faintest idea about...


I think you mean articles of association, but anyway, if you go through online registration with companies house and pay the much cheaper fee that way (15 snoops I believe) you can just adopt the standard articles which are basically a template upon which most simple companies are formed. I can probably step this through with you if that helps?

However, you will need to then process (1)(a) directors payrol using payroll software or (b) draw dividends (or both) and (2) keep thorough and proper accounts for the entire time that the company is trading and maintain these records with HMRC and companies house. It's not as hard or as complicated as it sounds once you get your head around the terminology but there are heavy fines if you fail to file in time and virtually no valid excuses besides serious health issues.

If you want less hassle you may want to look at a service like Crunch Accounting with a monthly fee and simply add this to your day rate or use an umbrella company that processes your payroll and takes of tax deductible expenses from your tax liability meaning you effectively get paid for those too. These solutions basically facilitate or deal entirely with your tax liability for you so you have nothing to worry about except doing the job and submitting your timeheets and expense receipts on time.

If you want to do entirely your own accounts which probably isn't worth it unless you really are running a business with loads of transactions and expense like mine then the best accounting software for you would be FreeAgent (I'm not biased here as I actually use Xero which is deliberate overkill).

Bear in mind you have an existing job your tax is going to be basic rate which is 20% until HMRC either issue a new tax code (coding notice) or refund it (I was refunded about £500 a year later), so you should contact them the day you start the job to get this corrected. If you run your own company with directors payroll then you can probably pay the correct amount of tax directly even before you get a coding notice as HMRC won't care provided you are paying the correct tax (this assume that at no point are you earning money from two jobs at the same time, you can also work around this by putting some tax liability aside in case you receive a tax bill next tax year because you or your company underpaid).

I found using an umbrella company relatively painless, the service I used was Exchequer Solutions, but they did short me on one or two small travel expenses and don't expect to claim anything that is really plant and machinery like power tools (I saw some builder types doing this, why they didn't have a limited company or go sole trader I have no idea). I didn't have any long term tax problems although I think maybe I didn't submit this form or that form or the umbrella company didn't about some £15 tax relief or whatever, I can't remember anymore as it was years ago.

You also want to consider that the conservative government are currently on assault over the contracting profession. Basically if you are only contracting for one company they want to consider that employment meaning that the client is meant to pay national insurance and pension etc, where half the attraction of contractors to clients is that there are no ties and no tax liabilities or employment rights (good or bad thing). So will need to do some other random work to avoid being caught in something called an IR32 conflict, you will also need to advertise your company as a business and not just effectively a shell company. Maybe set up a few fiverr gigs even if you don't do anything and do some design stuff for some friends of friends etc, make sure you haven the proper documents like quotes and invoices, bank statements etc.

You can also avoid that using an umbrella company. HMRC are still cool with them I believe, at least for now, because they don't care provided all the tax is being paid (I think you also pay employees national insurance if you set up a directors payroll so there's that solution too).

You would also need a business bank account for a company, you can't use your personal bank account for a company (but you can use personal banking for sole trader or both). I've heard both Barclays and Santander are good.


Basically pay ALL THE TAX and you'll be fine.


Thanks GG :wub: I've been reading up on a few of the things you've mentioned, so I think I've got a vague understanding of it all now! Found the templates for the Articles of Association, too!


Yeah I set up my own company for contracting years ago and it wasn't that hard once you got into it. Although I would recommend speaking to an accountant if you are going to go it alone - I just wanted to be relieved of the stress of dealing with everything personally so managed to get a good recommendation for a local accountant. The cost was very reasonable for the reassurance that everything was going to be taken care of! :)

Frank wrote:The problem now is I go to Companies House to try and set up as a company, and all the names I want are taken :slol: Someone give me some inspiration pls!


What kind of work do you do? I was looking at software development contracting and went pretty boring with my company name, it was just my own name with "Solutions" put on the end! :lol:

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by I Believe In Stool Bloke » Fri May 18, 2018 5:24 pm

There's absolutely no way someone getting sent home on the day after a period of sickness should have it added as a new occasion. That's totally unfair!

I won't risk delving further into the subject in here ;).

It's getting a bit mad for me right now. They're arranging a party for the entire department that is to be thrown in my honour, welcome me into the role. I've had people taking orders for me on how to kit out my new private office and I'm being flown out to India on business class Emirates to stay in a 5 star hotel for four nights, all expenses paid, to essentially do strawberry float all but show my presence at a handful of board meetings.

How long until this all goes tits up? :slol:

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by *<]:^D » Sat May 19, 2018 5:09 pm

should start taking advantage of business expenses, sounds like theyve got money to burn

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Karl » Sat May 19, 2018 9:18 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:How long until this all goes tits up? :slol:

Your underlings are already plotting your demise.

Good luck!

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by I Believe In Stool Bloke » Sun May 20, 2018 10:34 pm

Karl wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:How long until this all goes tits up? :slol:

Your underlings are already plotting your demise.

Good luck!

Thanks Karl. Going by the amount of managers who have been sacked from this place over the last few months, I'm going to need it.

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