The Work Thread

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Hexx
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Hexx » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:18 pm

Ad7 wrote:and im sure he loves getting an email from an employee at gone 9pm in personal time.


If it's from Qikz he probably opened some wine and turned the lights down before opening.

He loved it

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Green Gecko » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:07 am

Qikz, you're working too hard.

Your manager is doing the responsible thing which is to ensure you are taking adequate rest when you are ill, or this will have longer term health implications as well as being kind of human rights issue.

It's important to recognise when you are eligible to take time off sick, and when you are told to go home because you are sick. People do not admire others who insist on working even when they are ill. This is a falsehood.

If you are ever concerned about docked pay due to sickness, tell your manager that you are facing financial trouble and you would greatly appreciate some paid sick leave. They will probably accommodate you unless repeated sickness is suspect, which in this case, it certainly isn't.

Your contract states that sick pay is awarded at their discretion.

Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) is legally required payments to you that you can claim if you have a doctors note, but only after 2 days of calling in sick. These first two days are called "self certified" which means, you are allowed to say, "I am sick", and it's up to your manager whether or not they believe you. In terms of SSP you are NOT paid for these 2 days (or any instance or sequence of 1/2 days at any other point, only in succession. For example if you take 3 individual sick days during a month you will not get SSP for the 3rd day.) You get SSP from the 3rd day in a row, not including weekends or other days where you normally don't work. The company is able to claim this money back from the government, so it is a kind of benefit. I believe it was about £2.80 per hour, barely anything really.

The reason it waits 2 days to kick in, is to prevent people taking the piss, on the governments terms. But most good companies will offer sick pay, in this case, they just decide to treat it on a case by case basis. If they decide to pay you for a few days sick it won't have any affect on your payslips. If you are paid SSP only it will show up on your payslip as a line called SSP or Statutory Sick Pay: whatever. They might write down the days of paid sick leave on your payslip too. I doubt they will give you both.

On good behaviour/performance, it's reasonable to assume that they would award you sick pay.

Don't worry about this too much, it just happens.

For the record, I only had SSP and was off for 2 weeks once and it was gooseberry fool. I couldn't pay for some things. In which case, the answer is, take care of yourself and don't get sick for long periods, which is what happens when you don't take sick days for shorter periods.

Nobody can just work 100% forever. You'll end up killing yourself.

Relax and remember that taking a day or 2 or 3 off to recover from an illness counts as "doing a thing" and remember it is part of your duty as a worker to take care of yourself and therefore your ability to work, as much as it is to work effectively when you are well. If you feel guilty about this on your sick days, I find it helps to tell yourself occasionally that "I am on a sick day, I am taking care of my body. I'm doing no work today and that's fine." Just watch Netflix or play games or whatever. Drink plenty of water and remember to eat well. Normally you'll be fine after a couple of days.

It took me quite a long time to understand that.

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That's not a growth
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by That's not a growth » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:15 am

You see what you did SD, GG wrote all that at 3am. Next time just don't go to bloody work, this is bigger than you.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Moggy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:11 am

We get sick pay but they have recently brought in the “Bradford Factor” to try and cut it down on it. http://www.bradfordfactorcalculator.com/

It’s a ridiculous system that actually encourages you to have more days off than you need as it punishes for number of number of occurrences during a year rather than number of days you have off. So that makes it utterly pointless to only have one day off sick, you have to have 3 or 4 days off in one go to make it worth it. ;)

We get a bollocking if our score is over 200 but below that is absolutely fine and so it is easy to work out how much of a score you have left to go and see if you can have a few days off. :lol:

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Errkal
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Errkal » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:24 am

We just get paid like normal.

We only have 10 people in the company and pay is a standing order on the company bank account the boss can't be arsed to change it if you have a sick day so just pays us.

He hates the accountant and would have to speak to them to rejig tax and stuff so he says the cost of paying the odd day is better than speaking to the account banana split double.

Everyone's a winner :D

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Green Gecko » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:28 pm

Lol that's great, maybe he should run his own payroll on Xero or something. ;)

I once got paid late because director switched banks and didn't want to pay a fast transfer fee. I couldn't pay my rent. Wasn't happy about that.

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Qikz
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Qikz » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:03 pm

I'm sorry Gecko!

Luckily as it turns out today I feel much better (took the day off again and just actually relaxed this time) knowing that they won't strawberry float around with my pay due to the fact I've been off sick and I'll be fine to go back tomorrow. ^^

The Watching Artist wrote:I feel so inept next to Qikz...
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Green Gecko » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:20 pm

good things

dw I only gave you a gg lecture cos I was the same and I didn't really understand how to reconcile the emotions, I read all about SSP in the same scenario and just relayed what I understood.

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That
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by That » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:32 pm

Moggy wrote:We get sick pay but they have recently brought in the “Bradford Factor” to try and cut it down on it. http://www.bradfordfactorcalculator.com/

It’s a ridiculous system that actually encourages you to have more days off than you need as it punishes for number of number of occurrences during a year rather than number of days you have off. So that makes it utterly pointless to only have one day off sick, you have to have 3 or 4 days off in one go to make it worth it. ;)

We get a bollocking if our score is over 200 but below that is absolutely fine and so it is easy to work out how much of a score you have left to go and see if you can have a few days off. :lol:


It says the Bradford factor is "S squared times D", where "S" is the separate occasions you've been absent and D is the total days absent. It says a score of 100 is cause for concern.

So 10^2 * 1 = 100 would be 10 separate 1 day sicknesses. But 1 * 100 = 100 would be 1 occasion on which you had 100 days off. They are exactly the same in the Bradford factor system.

Sounds like a load of total BS. :lol:

EDIT: I messed it up a bit, you couldn't be absent for 10 occasions for 1 total day. But I think 5^2 * 5 = 125 would exceed the threshold. So that's 5 separate 1-day absences counted the same as a single three-month absence. What am I missing here? That sounds even more insane.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Moggy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:19 pm

I guess each company sets their own limit on what is a cause for concern. Ours is 150 being a "concern", whereas 200 means you get a slapped arse (and not in a good way).

I can't be arsed doing the calcs, but you are right, it would punish you more for having lots of absences than the total number of days.

That's why it's stupid and insane. If you have a migraine it's genuinely in your interest to lie and say it's something more long lasting as you get punished more for 1 day off than 3 or 4. :lol:

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Oblomov Boblomov » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:37 pm

That's not true though. You still get a higher score if you take longer off on one occasion, it just doesn't go up as much as if you have two separate sicknesses.

It makes perfect sense. A high number of separate incidents more strongly suggests a sickness absence issue than a couple of longer periods.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Moggy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:43 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:That's not true though. You still get a higher score if you take longer off on one occasion, it just doesn't go up as much as if you have two separate sicknesses.

It makes perfect sense. A high number of separate incidents more strongly suggests a sickness absence issue than a couple of longer periods.


Somebody works in HR. ;)

If over a 12 month period I had 10 days sick over 5 periods, I'd have a score of 250.

If over the same period I had 10 days over 3 periods, I'd have a score of 90.

If I had 10 days in one period, I'd have a score of 10.

That's why I say it encourages people to have longer off than they actually need. If you're adding an occurrence, then you might as well make it worth your while.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Oblomov Boblomov » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:57 pm

Moggy wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:That's not true though. You still get a higher score if you take longer off on one occasion, it just doesn't go up as much as if you have two separate sicknesses.

It makes perfect sense. A high number of separate incidents more strongly suggests a sickness absence issue than a couple of longer periods.


Somebody works in HR. ;)

If over a 12 month period I had 10 days sick over 5 periods, I'd have a score of 250.

If over the same period I had 10 days over 3 periods, I'd have a score of 90.

If I had 10 days in one period, I'd have a score of 10.

That's why I say it encourages people to have longer off than they actually need. If you're adding an occurrence, then you might as well make it worth your while.

It's to protect people who suffer an injury, go into surgery, come down with something really nasty etc. Policies should be developed with that sort of compassion in mind and it's unfortunate that dishonest people abuse something created in their interest.

Also, I don't work in HR!

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Moggy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:07 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:That's not true though. You still get a higher score if you take longer off on one occasion, it just doesn't go up as much as if you have two separate sicknesses.

It makes perfect sense. A high number of separate incidents more strongly suggests a sickness absence issue than a couple of longer periods.


Somebody works in HR. ;)

If over a 12 month period I had 10 days sick over 5 periods, I'd have a score of 250.

If over the same period I had 10 days over 3 periods, I'd have a score of 90.

If I had 10 days in one period, I'd have a score of 10.

That's why I say it encourages people to have longer off than they actually need. If you're adding an occurrence, then you might as well make it worth your while.

It's to protect people who suffer an injury, go into surgery, come down with something really nasty etc. Policies should be developed with that sort of compassion in mind and it's unfortunate that dishonest people abuse something created in their interest.

Also, I don't work in HR!


Nobody was ever penalised at my work before this silly system for having injuries or surgery.

The system is to stop people taking the piss by having too many Mondays off with hangovers, but the actual effect is to make people stay off work longer if they do ever have a sick day.

A better system would be to trust your staff and just punish those that abuse it.

FYI, my current score is 20 so I'm not taking the piss too badly, but I can 100% see why people do.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Oblomov Boblomov » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:40 pm

Moggy wrote:A better system would be to trust your staff and just punish those that abuse it.


Step 1. Staff member is abusing the sickness absence policy
Step 2. Question staff member about it
Step 3. Staff member tells you they were sick
Step 4. Trust staff member

Great system :lol:

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by That » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:02 pm

I think it depends on the kind of workplace. If you're stacking shelves then I think it's understandable that your sick leave is monitored and micromanaged. OTOH I work in academia and I absolutely expect trust & flexibility from my supervisor when it comes to things like being off sick or needing to work from home.

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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Wrathy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:25 am

Grad scheme officially in its twilight hours. Got my four weeks notice letter today. :dread:

Also got an interview tomorrow. This one is internal, which is good, but I had an external interview for a similar role yesterday which I got rejected from this afternoon. Exactly the sort of confidence boost you need. :fp:

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Moggy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:18 am

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Moggy wrote:A better system would be to trust your staff and just punish those that abuse it.


Step 1. Staff member is abusing the sickness absence policy
Step 2. Question staff member about it
Step 3. Staff member tells you they were sick
Step 4. Trust staff member

Great system :lol:


That's the system that worked for decades. If somebody had lots of sick time then they could and would take action.

Now they are encouraging people to take longer off sick than they need. Great system. :lol:

Plus the Bradford Factor harshly penalises people with genuine health problems. A health condition that flares up every so often can lead to multiple absences.

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Errkal
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Errkal » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:43 am

You know a big chunk of why people hate their jobs etc probably comes from this lack of workplaces trusting their damn staff.

Instead of just monitoring it and dealing with that take the piss everyone gets strawberry floated, when someone acts like a banana split instead of that person getting a bollocking everyone does.

It doesn't prevent the arsehole being an arsehole it just means those who go "above and beyond" gradually get work down u til they think strawberry float it what's the point.

Obviously it isn't the same everywhere and isn't so much where I am now, but was in my last place.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: The Work Thread
by Oblomov Boblomov » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:34 am

Moggy wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Moggy wrote:A better system would be to trust your staff and just punish those that abuse it.


Step 1. Staff member is abusing the sickness absence policy
Step 2. Question staff member about it
Step 3. Staff member tells you they were sick
Step 4. Trust staff member

Great system :lol:


That's the system that worked for decades. If somebody had lots of sick time then they could and would take action.

Now they are encouraging people to take longer off sick than they need. Great system. :lol:

Plus the Bradford Factor harshly penalises people with genuine health problems. A health condition that flares up every so often can lead to multiple absences.

I gave you a very simple four point step that proves it doesn't work. How do you think eventually taking action against sometime plays out in tribunals if you can't present evidence of the implementation of a sickness absence policy that is consistently applied to all employees?

It's also bizarre logic that it encourages someone to take longer off. That suggests further down the year you're planning to become sick but then go into work anyway, because hey at least you had two extra days of fake sickness absence a few months ago. Huh?

Your final point — why would a company want to pay for someone who is sick regularly? This policy isn't just to flush out skivers, it's also to provide support to or ultimately get rid of people who genuinely are too sick to be economically viable to the organisation. Not a nice idea, obviously, but a realistic one.

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