Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:14 pm

'It is not the case that they are complete' :simper:

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Cuttooth » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:28 pm

Davis has clearly strawberry floated up.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:31 pm

Cuttooth wrote:Davis has clearly strawberry floated up.

Nobody could've seen that coming.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:07 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/27/mps-attack-david-davis-for-handing-over-redacted-brexit-reports


David Davis has been told he could be in contempt of parliament after his department heavily edited government analyses on the impact of Brexit on 58 industrial sectors before handing them to a select committee.

Opposition MPs accused the Brexit secretary of leaving out “politically embarrassing” information after he refused to include anything deemed to be market sensitive or that he said could damage the UK’s negotiations with the EU27.

Davis said he was withholding the information because he had “received no assurances from the [Brexit] committee regarding how any information passed will be used”. But that triggered a furious reaction from MPs on the Brexit select committee who were supposed to be handed over the reports after a unanimous and binding vote of MPs. One option, they said, is to trigger contempt proceedings against the cabinet minister.
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They will meet with their chair, Hilary Benn, to discuss whether the release is acceptable on Tuesday morning.

Seema Malhotra, a Labour MP and member of the committee who has spearheaded a drive to obtain the information, said publishing material that had been edited was “against the spirit and the letter of parliament’s motion”.

“It seems like the government have already decided what should and should not be seen by editing them before sending the impact studies to the select committee,” she said.

Pete Wishart, an SNP member of the committee, said there had been a promise of no “redaction or qualification” and said he had written to Benn about the issue. He warned that he was ready to pursue “contempt of the House” proceedings with speaker John Bercow if he was not satisfied.

The MP for Perth said he expected the matter to be raised in the House of Commons through a series of points of orders and it would be for the speaker to decide whether the government was in contempt of parliament. If this is the case, he suggested that there could be a motion brought forward to refer the government to a parliamentary committee to await sanction.

An influential Brexit-supporting member of the committee agreed. Jacob Rees-Mogg, a Conservative, said that parliament’s vote should be considered as binding. He said that the government was “in serious constitutional waters if it doesn’t provide the full information” to the committee.

“The government could have amended the motion, and that is still a fallback position for them. But without doing that, failure to provide all the information does not meet the terms of the humble address and is potentially a breach of privilege,” he told the Guardian.
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“This is nothing to do with Brexit or party politics – it is to do with the rights of the House of Commons. We will all be in opposition one day – and it is important to remember that. If you try to trample the rights of Commons in government – then when in opposition you have no means of curtailing abuses of power.”

Sources admitted that the information passed to the committee was a “piece of sectoral analysis” compiled into 39 reports that they said covered all the industries. They insisted there never were 58 separate studies, but instead continuous work by civil servants that had been pulled together and edited in a way that officials believed would satisfy parliament’s demands.

However, the Brexit secretary previously claimed the government was “in the midst of carrying out about 57 sets of analyses, each of which has implications for individual parts of 85% of the economy. Some of those are still to be concluded.”

However, it is not clear yet whether Benn will be satisfied with the information, as his reaction could defuse the row.

It came as a confidential study conducted by the UK government and the European Commission listed 142 cross-border activities on the island of Ireland that would be negatively affected by a hard Brexit. They include heart surgery in Dublin for children from Northern Ireland as well as cancer treatment in Derry for people from the Republic because patients, clinicians and ambulances are free to move across the border without checks.

Also at listed as at risk are existing cross-border agreements on mobile phone roaming, which enable commuters, tourists and business travellers with charges restricted to local rates across the entire island of Ireland.

Davis has been under pressure to release the reports linked to 58 British sectors after MPs voted in favour of a Labour-led motion, which the Commons Speaker, John Bercow, made clear was binding. He called on ministers to comply “very promptly indeed”, setting a deadline of Tuesday 28 November.
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The shadow Brexit secretary, Sir Keir Starmer, had forced the issue by using an ancient parliamentary procedure known as a humble address. He said that Davis now needed to comply in full. “Parliament was very clear in its instruction to ministers. All 58 impact assessments should have been shared with the select committee in full, without redaction and unedited,” said Starmer. “If the government has failed to comply with this ruling then we will not hesitate in raising this matter with the Speaker.” He indicated that the ultimate sanction would be contempt proceedings.

Pat McFadden, a Labour MP on the Brexit committee, said he was yet to see the information. “Unless the government has a very convincing reason to withhold something, my instincts are that it should be made public,” he said. “There’s a big difference between information which is politically embarrassing and information which genuinely is not in the national interest. And I am highly sceptical of about the accusation that anyone asking serious questions about the issues on Brexit is undermining our negotiating strategy.”

Chuka Umunna, a Labour MP, said it was “not only a potential contempt of parliament in not providing what was promised but misleading the House of Commons too”.

The select committee said the information would be treated in the same way as any evidence, with members assessing it during a meeting on Tuesday morning and deciding what should be placed in the public domain.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:37 pm

Oops

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:40 pm

twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/935203484374327298



twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/935229015975219202


Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lex-Man » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:09 pm

Well that's one way to leave parliament.

Amusement under late capitalism is the prolongation of work.
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:29 am

twitter.com/greg_jenner/status/935210495929470976



twitter.com/danieljhannan/status/666954840313085952


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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:07 am

Who would have ever thought it would be this difficult, eh?

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:58 pm

Well, we're not dissolving the government so its onto the EU summit to remind the UK about the border and further stoke anti irish sentiment in westminster.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:31 pm

The hard-won kinship between Britain and Ireland is threatened by Brexit idiocy

As things stand, the December summit seems likely to say that enough progress has been made on two of the key preliminary questions, the divorce bill and the mutual recognition of the rights of expat citizens.
But Ireland will be the spoke in the wheel. The verbal missiles that have already been tested will then be launched across the Irish Sea. A whole country will join the ranks of saboteurs and renegades, without whom the Brexit project would be proceeding triumphantly.


To grasp the full stupidity of this situation, remember that Ireland is actually Britain’s best friend on the other side of the negotiating table. This is partly because, before the Brexit referendum, Anglo-Irish relations were warmer than at any time in the long and often bitter history of mutual entanglement. The two governments worked hand in glove on the Northern Ireland peace process and developed a genuine trust. They also co-operated very closely within the European Union. But even leaving friendship aside, Ireland has an overwhelming interest in making Brexit as painless as it possibly can be. A bad Brexit will destabilise Northern Ireland and damage the Republic’s economy, in which most small and medium-size companies depend heavily on the British market.
It is thus quite a feat for the Brexiters to turn their most sympathetic ally into the scapegoat for their own most egregious failures. They’ve pulled it off by utilising their most remarkable skill: sheer incompetence. They have known since 29 April, when the European commission issued its negotiating guidelines, that credible proposals on the Irish border were a basic condition that had to be satisfied before trade talks could start. This could not have been more explicit.


Behind this reckless arrogance, there is an assumption that Ireland is an eccentric little offshoot of Britain that must shut its gob and stop asking awkward questions. It is, in fact, a sovereign country with the full backing of 26 other EU member states - and how strange it is that we have reached a point where this comes as an unpleasant surprise to so many people in London.


Full piece here:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-hard-won-kinship-between-britain-and-ireland-is-threatened-by-brexit-idiocy-1.3306660

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: Brexit
by Peter Crisp » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:32 pm

I'd have thought an open border would be beneficial to both sides and just the sheer number of people who cross the border in both directions just to go to work would make squabbles about the issue by either side a bad idea.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:35 pm

Peter Crisp wrote:I'd have thought an open border would be beneficial to both sides and just the sheer number of people who cross the border in both directions just to go to work would make squabbles about the issue by either side a bad idea.

It is better for both sides, socially, economically and logically an open border is essential. The DUP and Conservatives though don't agree with 'the will of the people', they seem to pick and choose when to use that particular caveat.

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:37 pm

twitter.com/smashmorePH/status/935489808780099584



awesome sentence.

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: Brexit
by Peter Crisp » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:42 pm

Photek wrote:
Peter Crisp wrote:I'd have thought an open border would be beneficial to both sides and just the sheer number of people who cross the border in both directions just to go to work would make squabbles about the issue by either side a bad idea.

It is better for both sides, socially, economically and logically an open border is essential. The DUP and Conservatives though don't agree with 'the will of the people', they seem to pick and choose when to use that particular caveat.


It seems like a shitty thing to try and take a political stand on as it will affect many people who just want to go to work or see relatives. It's not even as if I can see an argument that it would allow refugees free passage as I don't see Ireland being that happy about allowing floods of refugees to turn up and use Ireland as a stopping point. I'm struggling to think of any reason to have a manned border between 2 countries that are so entwined.

We're discussions ever had about a possible border between England and Scotland if they went for independence as that would have been equally stupid.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:50 pm

I find it very embarrassing to be English. I hope not everyone thinks all of us are like these numbskulls.

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Brexit
by Drumstick » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:21 pm

All of this nonsense on the basis that a third of the country voted to leave.

How delightful.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:47 pm

twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/935437491691278337


Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:51 pm

Errkal wrote:

twitter.com/smashmorePH/status/935489808780099584



awesome sentence.

I wonder how people who claim to have voted for Brexit to strengthen our democracy and Parliamentary sovereignty feel about pro-Brexit ministers trying their hardest to keep Parliament, and the country, in the dark like this.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:57 pm

Garth wrote:
Errkal wrote:

twitter.com/smashmorePH/status/935489808780099584



awesome sentence.

I wonder how people who claim to have voted for Brexit to strengthen our democracy and Parliamentary sovereignty feel about pro-Brexit ministers trying their hardest to keep Parliament, and the country, in the dark like this.


Let’s ask the BBC commenters.

Surely these papers are confidential to the UK's position in relation to Brexit ?

In which case, they cannot be openly discussed in parliament for the world to hear.

They could be presented in confidence to MPs, i.e. outside parliament, but I would not trust ant MP to then not to instantly leak their contents to the press.

Some Government business must be conducted behind closed doors.


Id love to play poker with a labour MP, they'd clearly be happy to show me all their cards.


"Parliament is being treated with contempt over the partial release of Brexit documents, Labour has claimed"


-----

Whereas Labour just treat the citizens of the UK with contempt.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42149793


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