Brexit

Moggy wrote:

captain red dog wrote:

Moggy wrote:Other than the name, there is nothing there to suggest it would follow an American model.

I don't see how it wouldn't, its a United States, there is only one way that can work in theory.

If they were going to continue under the current model, why would you even call for a US of E. I think the current model, whilst needing massive reform, is actually more attractive.

How is there only one way it can work?

The United Kingdom doesn’t work in the same way and is a collection of states/countries. Australia is basically a United States of Oz and doesn’t work the same way.

There are plenty of models and new ideas can come in to change things.

Plus as bear says, this isn’t actually happening.

I think central government needs some kind of power to assert its will. I personally not think the EU or US are able to assert enough control on their members. It's basically impossible to do things like education policy under either model.

Phase One of the Brexit talks had an agreement to no hard border with Ireland. But now May says that the UK will leave the Customs Union?

How exactly does she plan on putting those two things together?

Hexx wrote:In other news - bets on the EU walking away from talks? Wouldn't blame them. May's just thrown all negotiations to date under a bus in her paniced response to appear "tough" after the Brexiteer Sunday Times piece...

If Merkhel's to be believed May will say "Make me an offer"

Moggy wrote:Phase One of the Brexit talks had an agreement to no hard border with Ireland. But now May says that the UK will leave the Customs Union?

How exactly does she plan on putting those two things together?

It's impossible.

The only solution is for NI to stay in the customs union, which would likely require NI to retain freedom of movement. But then that means you need a sea border between NI and the rest of the UK and you have citizens in one part of the UK with totally different rights to the rest of the UK. The Torys and DUP have said they don't want that plus it's basically an invite to legal challenges from people in England/Scotland/Wales that they should have the same rights as NI citizens.

Which means Phase One of the talks have failed and we are back to looking like we will end up with hard Brexit.

Yay!

The EU can't really walk away. They have things they need to sort out with us.

That's not a variation on 'they need us more than we need them'. It something that I don't see happening. I can see talks being delayed and then being totally crunched at a later date though.

Edit - I'm fairly sure Hard Brexit isn't going to happen. Our negotiating team will capitulate. Regulatory alignment is the only way we can proceed. We will continue paying in, because that's the only thing we can do. This whole thing has been a pointless waste of everyone's time and effort.

CAN EVERYONE IN THE GOVERNMENT STOP TALKING BULLSHIT PLEASE!

Oh my lords, watching this constant hot shoe shuffle is embarrassing.

Squinty wrote:The EU can't really walk away. They have things they need to sort out with us.

That's not a variation on 'they need us more than we need them'. It something that I don't see happening. I can see talks being delayed and then being totally crunched at a later date though.

Edit - I'm fairly sure Hard Brexit isn't going to happen. Our negotiating team will capitulate. Regulatory alignment is the only way we can proceed. We will continue paying in, because that's the only thing we can do. This whole thing has been a pointless waste of everyone's time and effort.

I hope it doesn’t happen but I can see a no deal happening.

We currently have a Prime Minister who is unable to lead the way she wants because of the hard Brexiters in her party. She might want a soft Brexit but can’t go for it as she fears (probably rightly) that she’ll be thrown out of office.

Those hard Brexit voices have the advantage that they are not the figureheads that will be blamed for a collapse post hard Brexit. They will feel that they can force through hard Brexit at very little personal risk to themselves.

Added to that we have no real opposition from the Labour party, meaning a Tory driven hard Brexit will not be stopped by the other parties.

A hard Brexit is still a very big risk while we still have Johnson, Gove, Davis, Rees-Mogg and Fox pulling the Prime Minister’s strings. And I don’t see those people changing their minds or disappearing any time soon.

You have to remember the Brewster voters have (largely) shown they're incapable of dealing with factual reality.

A no deal situation for this core group won't reflect badly on Johnson, Gove etc, and it can't possibly be leave voters fault. It'll all be the EU's fault for completely unreasonably not accommodating cakism.

As Moggy says there's no downside to catastrophic hard Brexit for the right wing politicians.

Hexx wrote:You have to remember the Brewster voters have (largely) shown they're incapable of dealing with factual reality.

A no deal situation for this core group won't reflect badly on Johnson, Gove etc, and it can't possibly be leave voters fault. It'll all be the EU's fault for completely unreasonably not accommodating cakism.

As Moggy says there's no downside to catastrophic hard Brexit for the right wing politicians.

I guess out of all of them Johnson is the one that might suffer from a collapse after a hard Brexit. He’ll be the one Remainers point at.

But he’s probably confident (arrogant!) that he’ll wiggle out of it. And he might well be right, he’ll just blame May for not carrying out Brexit the way he wanted - “it’s her fault, I would have gotten loads of deals around the world!”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/201 ... ceful-way/

Racist ignorant old men. The real victims

It's ok everyone. They have a plan.

twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/960479419465904128

They don't want to have a hypothetical discussion about their hypothetical solution?

Hexx wrote:Racist ignorant old men. The real victims

Old men running the world -- a new age! Old men are the future.

IDS is a maverick, fighting against the establishment.

Karl wrote:

Hexx wrote:Racist ignorant old men. The real victims

Old men running the world -- a new age! Old men are the future.

Smugg's double down on attacking Hammond and Civil Servants too now.

I really struggle to see an optimistic way forward.

Moggy wrote:IDS is a maverick, fighting against the establishment.

And unmarried men. And benefit claimants. And reality itself.

Squinty wrote:

Moggy wrote:IDS is a maverick, fighting against the establishment.

And unmarried men. And benefit claimants. And reality itself.

I'm unmarried and up for fighting IDS.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-trad ... ssion=true

Hahahahahaha

Squinty wrote:https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-trade-partners-object-to-brexit-transition-roll-over/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Hahahahahaha

They all need us more than we need them!