Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Mon May 21, 2018 1:28 pm

lex-man wrote:
Squinty wrote:If the Tories win a majority, they could easily discard the DUP shackles and defy them by putting the border on the sea. I don't think it's likely, but if they were free of them, it would provide a bit more wiggle room.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... html%3famp

More project fear!


The DUP have a lot of sway over Tory party even without holding them up. That's why the Good Friday Agreement happened under a Labour government because they weren't beholden to the DUP. Also the Tories want to keep the UK together so they'd be a fight in their ranks over putting a hard boarder between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.


I honestly don't think the hard brexit side of their party would care at all about the union breaking up.

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Mon May 21, 2018 2:51 pm

Squinty wrote:
lex-man wrote:
Squinty wrote:If the Tories win a majority, they could easily discard the DUP shackles and defy them by putting the border on the sea. I don't think it's likely, but if they were free of them, it would provide a bit more wiggle room.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... html%3famp

More project fear!


The DUP have a lot of sway over Tory party even without holding them up. That's why the Good Friday Agreement happened under a Labour government because they weren't beholden to the DUP. Also the Tories want to keep the UK together so they'd be a fight in their ranks over putting a hard boarder between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.


I honestly don't think the hard brexit side of their party would care at all about the union breaking up.


The hard Brexiteer's were describing a hard boarder between NI and Britain as the EU annexation of NI, I think they will mind.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Mon May 21, 2018 4:54 pm

Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:Thing is it was almost a fluke that it was the DUP that could give the Tories power last time. The kingmakers next time are very, very likely to be either the Lib Dems or the SNP.


The Lib Dem’s are unlikely to recover and the SNP are so anti-Brexit that I doubt they’ll go along with Corbyn.

If the DUP collapse though then things will get interesting.


It doesnt matter if they don't recover, they will still have enough seats to be a likely kingmaker.


Explain how similar election results to last year will make the Lib Dem’s kingmakers?

And even if they were, why would ex-coalition member Cable not go with the Tories rather than Corbyn?


I think possibilities exist outside very similar results. If the Tories had less seats even by five, the DUP would not have enough seats to prop them up.

The Lib Dems and SNP would probably have very different potential partners.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon May 21, 2018 4:57 pm

DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:Thing is it was almost a fluke that it was the DUP that could give the Tories power last time. The kingmakers next time are very, very likely to be either the Lib Dems or the SNP.


The Lib Dem’s are unlikely to recover and the SNP are so anti-Brexit that I doubt they’ll go along with Corbyn.

If the DUP collapse though then things will get interesting.


It doesnt matter if they don't recover, they will still have enough seats to be a likely kingmaker.


Explain how similar election results to last year will make the Lib Dem’s kingmakers?

And even if they were, why would ex-coalition member Cable not go with the Tories rather than Corbyn?


I think possibilities exist outside very similar results. If the Tories had less seats even by five, the DUP would not have enough seats to prop them up.

The Lib Dems and SNP would probably have very different potential partners.


Yes but we can play that game all day, if the DUP had less seats, if the Tories had less seats etc.

Fact is that another general election looks like being another hung parliament with the Tories having most seats. If the DUP aren’t enough to give them a majority then we’ll end up with a minority government and yet another election soon after.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Mon May 21, 2018 5:05 pm

Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:Thing is it was almost a fluke that it was the DUP that could give the Tories power last time. The kingmakers next time are very, very likely to be either the Lib Dems or the SNP.


The Lib Dem’s are unlikely to recover and the SNP are so anti-Brexit that I doubt they’ll go along with Corbyn.

If the DUP collapse though then things will get interesting.


It doesnt matter if they don't recover, they will still have enough seats to be a likely kingmaker.


Explain how similar election results to last year will make the Lib Dem’s kingmakers?

And even if they were, why would ex-coalition member Cable not go with the Tories rather than Corbyn?


I think possibilities exist outside very similar results. If the Tories had less seats even by five, the DUP would not have enough seats to prop them up.

The Lib Dems and SNP would probably have very different potential partners.


Yes but we can play that game all day, if the DUP had less seats, if the Tories had less seats etc.

Fact is that another general election looks like being another hung parliament with the Tories having most seats. If the DUP aren’t enough to give them a majority then we’ll end up with a minority government and yet another election soon after.


But there are scenarios where the Tories can have most seats and not end up in government. If the DUP/Tories don't have ebnough seats, don't you think they'd go with the Lib Dems in a heartbeat?

'We can play that game all day' :lol:

I'm talking about quite obvious possibilities in a very likely hung parliament.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Mon May 21, 2018 5:12 pm

DML wrote:I always like these conversations between two people who must get in the final word. ;)


Moggy wrote:They normally involve you. ;)


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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon May 21, 2018 5:12 pm

DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:Thing is it was almost a fluke that it was the DUP that could give the Tories power last time. The kingmakers next time are very, very likely to be either the Lib Dems or the SNP.


The Lib Dem’s are unlikely to recover and the SNP are so anti-Brexit that I doubt they’ll go along with Corbyn.

If the DUP collapse though then things will get interesting.


It doesnt matter if they don't recover, they will still have enough seats to be a likely kingmaker.


Explain how similar election results to last year will make the Lib Dem’s kingmakers?

And even if they were, why would ex-coalition member Cable not go with the Tories rather than Corbyn?


I think possibilities exist outside very similar results. If the Tories had less seats even by five, the DUP would not have enough seats to prop them up.

The Lib Dems and SNP would probably have very different potential partners.


Yes but we can play that game all day, if the DUP had less seats, if the Tories had less seats etc.

Fact is that another general election looks like being another hung parliament with the Tories having most seats. If the DUP aren’t enough to give them a majority then we’ll end up with a minority government and yet another election soon after.


But there are scenarios where the Tories can have most seats and not end up in government. If the DUP/Tories don't have ebnough seats, don't you think they'd go with the Lib Dems in a heartbeat?

'We can play that game all day' :lol:

I'm talking about quite obvious possibilities in a very likely hung parliament.


Well we can play that game all day! That wasn’t a dig, we could be here all day saying “what if the Lib Dem’s got more?”, “what if the SNP got less”, “what if Labour do better than expected”, “what if the Tories drop May and get a bounce from a new leader”, “what if Sinn Fein take their seats” etc etc

All we can go on is at the moment it’s likely a general election would be pretty similar to last time. And as May is still ahead of Corbyn in popularity (how the strawberry float is that possible??), I wouldn’t hold out hope for a non-Tory led government.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Mon May 21, 2018 5:25 pm

Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:Thing is it was almost a fluke that it was the DUP that could give the Tories power last time. The kingmakers next time are very, very likely to be either the Lib Dems or the SNP.


The Lib Dem’s are unlikely to recover and the SNP are so anti-Brexit that I doubt they’ll go along with Corbyn.

If the DUP collapse though then things will get interesting.


It doesnt matter if they don't recover, they will still have enough seats to be a likely kingmaker.


Explain how similar election results to last year will make the Lib Dem’s kingmakers?

And even if they were, why would ex-coalition member Cable not go with the Tories rather than Corbyn?


I think possibilities exist outside very similar results. If the Tories had less seats even by five, the DUP would not have enough seats to prop them up.

The Lib Dems and SNP would probably have very different potential partners.


Yes but we can play that game all day, if the DUP had less seats, if the Tories had less seats etc.

Fact is that another general election looks like being another hung parliament with the Tories having most seats. If the DUP aren’t enough to give them a majority then we’ll end up with a minority government and yet another election soon after.


But there are scenarios where the Tories can have most seats and not end up in government. If the DUP/Tories don't have ebnough seats, don't you think they'd go with the Lib Dems in a heartbeat?

'We can play that game all day' :lol:

I'm talking about quite obvious possibilities in a very likely hung parliament.


Well we can play that game all day! That wasn’t a dig, we could be here all day saying “what if the Lib Dem’s got more?”, “what if the SNP got less”, “what if Labour do better than expected”, “what if the Tories drop May and get a bounce from a new leader”, “what if Sinn Fein take their seats” etc etc

All we can go on is at the moment it’s likely a general election would be pretty similar to last time. And as May is still ahead of Corbyn in popularity (how the strawberry float is that possible??), I wouldn’t hold out hope for a non-Tory led government.


I think youre having a different discussion to me. You seemed to be suggesting that if things were similar to last time, things would run out the same and the Lib Dems/SNP have little to no say. I'm saying it only needs to change fractionally, and the DUP will almost certainly be ditched out. I'm not suggesting 'hope' for Labour to win. I'm simply saying any election, no matter how small a difference there is in public opinion is very likely to change the course of power somewhere along the line. I personally think it being exactly Tory/DUP again is actually incredibly unlikely, not likely.

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more heat than light
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PostRe: Brexit
by more heat than light » Mon May 21, 2018 5:30 pm

I think the youth vote is likely to be more engaged this time around. As in, 'if we can push the Tories this close last time, imagine what we can do if we had a proper go'. Whereas old people can be more...



Honestly no result would surprise me. Apart from maybe UKIP doing ok.

jawafour wrote:You definitely have the biggest one, mhtl - it's strawberry-floatin' massive!
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Garth
Emeritus
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Location: Norn Iron

PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Mon May 21, 2018 6:48 pm

May:
The United Kingdom would like the option to fully associate ourselves with the excellence-based European science and innovation programmes – including the successor to Horizon 2020 and Euratom R&T.

It is in the mutual interest of the UK and the EU that we should do so.

Of course such an association would involve an appropriate UK financial contribution, which we would willingly make.

In return, we would look to maintain a suitable level of influence in line with that contribution and the benefits we bring.

The UK is ready to discuss these details with the Commission as soon as possible.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... 1-may-2018

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Mon May 21, 2018 6:49 pm

Euggggggggghhbhhbhhhhbhhhhbhhbhbhh.

Just strawberry floating stay in.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Mon May 21, 2018 8:26 pm

more heat than light wrote:I think the youth vote is likely to be more engaged this time around. As in, 'if we can push the Tories this close last time, imagine what we can do if we had a proper go'. Whereas old people can be more...



Honestly no result would surprise me. Apart from maybe UKIP doing ok.

Given that Corbyn's hard-on for hard-Brexit is becoming more evident with every passing say since the last General Election I can honestly see the youth vote massively decreasing as they abandon Labour and can't find anywhere else to really go.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Mon May 21, 2018 8:28 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
more heat than light wrote:I think the youth vote is likely to be more engaged this time around. As in, 'if we can push the Tories this close last time, imagine what we can do if we had a proper go'. Whereas old people can be more...



Honestly no result would surprise me. Apart from maybe UKIP doing ok.

Given that Corbyn's hard-on for hard-Brexit is becoming more evident with every passing say since the last General Election I can honestly see the youth vote massively decreasing as they abandon Labour and can't find anywhere else to really go.

They will vote libdem

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Mon May 21, 2018 8:30 pm

Errkal wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
more heat than light wrote:I think the youth vote is likely to be more engaged this time around. As in, 'if we can push the Tories this close last time, imagine what we can do if we had a proper go'. Whereas old people can be more...



Honestly no result would surprise me. Apart from maybe UKIP doing ok.

Given that Corbyn's hard-on for hard-Brexit is becoming more evident with every passing say since the last General Election I can honestly see the youth vote massively decreasing as they abandon Labour and can't find anywhere else to really go.

They will vote libdem

I'm not sure the Youth Vote are ready to forgive the coalition and increased tuition fees yet.
Though they do seem ready to forgive Labour for introducing tuition fees in the first place so who knows.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon May 21, 2018 8:32 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
more heat than light wrote:I think the youth vote is likely to be more engaged this time around. As in, 'if we can push the Tories this close last time, imagine what we can do if we had a proper go'. Whereas old people can be more...



Honestly no result would surprise me. Apart from maybe UKIP doing ok.

Given that Corbyn's hard-on for hard-Brexit is becoming more evident with every passing say since the last General Election I can honestly see the youth vote massively decreasing as they abandon Labour and can't find anywhere else to really go.

They will vote libdem

I'm not sure the Youth Vote are ready to forgive the coalition and increased tuition fees yet.
Though they do seem ready to forgive Labour for introducing tuition fees in the first place so who knows.


They’ll all vote Renew.

;)

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Mon May 21, 2018 8:34 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
more heat than light wrote:I think the youth vote is likely to be more engaged this time around. As in, 'if we can push the Tories this close last time, imagine what we can do if we had a proper go'. Whereas old people can be more...



Honestly no result would surprise me. Apart from maybe UKIP doing ok.

Given that Corbyn's hard-on for hard-Brexit is becoming more evident with every passings say since the last General Election I can honestly see the youth vote massively decreasing as they abandon Labour and can't find anywhere else to really go.

They will vote libdem

I'm not sure the Youth Vote are ready to forgive the coalition and increased tuition fees yet.
Though they do seem ready to forgive Labour for introducing tuition fees in the first place so who knows.


That's because the youth then aren't the youth of now. It's been quite a few years since then now and there is a whole new group that are at uni and what have you and their main concern will be brexit and Lib Dems is the best option to save the country.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rex Kramer » Mon May 21, 2018 8:38 pm

I think the only guaranteed outcome of another general election is a lower voter turnout. Bringing in fixed term parliaments seems to have had the opposite effect that was intending.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon May 21, 2018 8:43 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:I think the only guaranteed outcome of another general election is a lower voter turnout. Bringing in fixed term parliaments seems to have had the opposite effect that was intending.


Since the fixed term parliaments were brought in, we’ve had one on schedule, one snap election and possibly another snap election on the way.

Another fantastic Cameron success. :lol:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Mon May 21, 2018 9:08 pm

Moggy wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:I think the only guaranteed outcome of another general election is a lower voter turnout. Bringing in fixed term parliaments seems to have had the opposite effect that was intending.


Since the fixed term parliaments were brought in, we’ve had one on schedule, one snap election and possibly another snap election on the way.

Another fantastic Cameron success. :lol:

Fixed Term Parliament was a Lib Dem policy wasn't it not Cameron?

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon May 21, 2018 9:12 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:I think the only guaranteed outcome of another general election is a lower voter turnout. Bringing in fixed term parliaments seems to have had the opposite effect that was intending.


Since the fixed term parliaments were brought in, we’ve had one on schedule, one snap election and possibly another snap election on the way.

Another fantastic Cameron success. :lol:

Fixed Term Parliament was a Lib Dem policy wasn't it not Cameron?


You’re right, it was the Lib Dem’s.

Another fantastic Clegg success. :lol:


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