Brexit

The only place I've seen figures mentioned is the right wing press that are trying to whip everyone into a fury.

Until the UK/EU actually confirm a proper figure, all of this talk is pretty meaningless.

This is why everything needs to be discussed and agreed as part of the exit and going forwards terms and not doing it as the EU wants, otherwise we end up with nothing to deal over.

From what I've read a lot of the money is to cover pensions and other work place stuff. There is also a load of agreements that we've signed that require we pay money for.

Edit: also Cameron agreed to keep paying into the EU until 2020.


https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... vorce-bill
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... rom-the-eu
"1. Outstanding budget commitments

The EU budget operates through a multi-annual spending structure, which means projects are paid for over a period of several years. As a result, EU budget payments are back-loaded and many will be paid out post-Brexit. For example, a key element of EU spending allocations consists of cohesion fund payments, aimed at raising living standards in the 2004 Accession countries. According to the CER, only 25–30% of the biggest cohesion fund payments will actually have been spent by the time Britain is expected to leave the EU in 2019.

The EU may argue that the UK should honour the obligations it signed up to for this budget period even after we leave. The UK may seek to use our exit date as a cut-off.

2. EU officials pensions.

Like the UK civil service pension scheme, the Pension Scheme of European Officials (PESO) is an unfunded scheme and operates on a ‘pay-as-you-go basis’, with costs being covered by the annual EU budget as they arise. The EU may argue that the UK should make a payment now to cover future liabilities incurred while we were a member.

It may also argue that we should pay our share of the total cost of all European Commission staff pensions rather than simply meet the lower bill for UK nationals in the Commission – the difference coming from the under-representation of British officials. The sum could either be met out of future payments- or converted into a lump sum on departure of between €5–10 billion.

3. Contingent liabilities

The EU incurred contingent liabilities during UK membership. These liabilities effectively constitute payments that would be triggered in specific circumstances only, for example, Ukraine defaulting on its EU loan. When the 2015 EU accounts were drawn up, outstanding loans to Hungary, Ireland, Portugal and Ukraine collectively amounted to €49.5 billion. The EU may seek either a commitment from the UK to meet possible future liabilities – or an upfront payment in case they materialise in the future."

This would be like me leaving my company and saying "don't forget to keep paying my pension contribution bitches".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4471334/LEO-McKINSTRY-explains-EU-owes-58bn.html

Interesting from tonight's French debate that Macron insisted that France only pay €6bn to the EU. Le Pen said it was €9bn. Whoever is right the figure is still far lower than what the UK pays in. It would mean that we pay more than double what France does even with our rebate if you take Macrons figures.

I've always wondered why France have always managed to get such a cushy number in the EU.

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Interesting from tonight's French debate that Macron insisted that France only pay €6bn to the EU. Le Pen said it was €9bn. Whoever is right the figure is still far lower than what the UK pays in. It would mean that we pay more than double what France does even with our rebate if you take Macrons figures.

I've always wondered why France have always managed to get such a cushy number in the EU.

We had the cushiest deal in the EU. We had so many concessions we shouldn't have had.

Qikz wrote:

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Interesting from tonight's French debate that Macron insisted that France only pay €6bn to the EU. Le Pen said it was €9bn. Whoever is right the figure is still far lower than what the UK pays in. It would mean that we pay more than double what France does even with our rebate if you take Macrons figures.

I've always wondered why France have always managed to get such a cushy number in the EU.

We had the cushiest deal in the EU. We had so many concessions we shouldn't have had.

Whilst we had a lot of concessions France I think had the best deal overall. The money they received through CAP for decades was phenomenal and destroyed the farming industry elsewhere throughout the EU. Even with our rebate we were still paying more in than France and getting less back despite our economies and population being very similar.

Just when you thought that there's no further depths of stupidity for the UK to sink to, that we've finally reached peak stupid, a whole new vista of stupid yawns open.

The UK inexplicably voted to inflict serious harm on ourselves, and to inflict collateral damage on our closest allies. Now we’re simply amazed that the EU doesn’t just want to roll over and let us do what we want. But…but…we’re Britain! Don’t they know that? Why are they so vindictive? Why are they picking on us?

We choose Theresa May, the most awkward, stilted, charmless politician in recorded history to negotiate on our behalf. She predictably humiliates herself, and the UK, and then we blame the European press for pointing it out. Our own press foams at the mouth, spitting venom every day, but we expect the European press to be impartial. Why?

We disregard all logic and economic expertise, and make a stupid political decision to Brexit. Now we’re astounded that the EU are also prioritising political imperatives over economic ones, by making it difficult for us. Why do we expect completely different standards from the EU than we apply to ourselves?
There seems to be very little awareness in the UK, and definitely not from the government, that we’re the ones doing all this. The EU are just reacting, logically and predictably, to protect their own interests against our senseless, mindless, stupid actions. They’re not doing anything to us. We’re not victims here.

What’s happening now is what was always predicted, by everyone who knows anything about these things: the ridiculous fantasies of the Brexit campaign are coming into contact with reality, like a cruise liner grinding into an iceberg. And the magic beans salesmen who brought us here are busy blaming the EU for the mess they created.

Comment from a Guardian article

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... pe-liberal

God newspaper columnists really do love writing overblown, hyperbolic, clickbait driven, mood-killing, Britain-hating, WORLD-hating shite.

I think I would rather be apart of the somewhat vacuous, non-voting, bereft of political interest Instagram generation than the miserable, self-loathing misery vacuums that newspapers and their message boards have become. It's unrelenting negativity. The irony of course, while being on opposite sides of the political spectrum, they're both as perpetually depressed as each other.

You know what the Guardian and Daily Mail have in common, along with our politicians? They're both creating resentment among nationalities, both trying to peddle a narrative that something, ANYTHING, has gone wrong in whatever country is flavour of turmoil that day. Greece, France, America, Italy, England, Sweden...Unrelenting.

This almost willing the UK economy to fail, for the EU to collapse, for jobs to go, for a terrorist attack, for a migrant crisis...MY GOD I JUST WANT TO BE PROVED RIGHT! so I can sit at my computer screen and say 'I told you so.'

Couldn't help himself...

Guardian wrote:The English language is losing importance in Europe, the president of the European commission has said amid simmering tensions over the Brexit negotiations.

Speaking to an audience of European diplomats and experts in Florence, Jean-Claude Juncker also described the UK’s decision to leave the EU as a tragedy.

“Slowly but surely English is losing importance in Europe,” Juncker said, to applause from his audience. “The French will have elections on Sunday and I would like them to understand what I am saying.” After these opening remarks in English, he switched to French for the rest of the speech.

It is not the first time the English language has been caught in the crossfire of the Brexit negotiations. At a recent EU summit May slapped down reports that Brexit negotiations would be conducted in French, and after the June referendum EU officials made it known they planned to downgrade the use of English in the corridors of Brussels.

In reality, the Brexit talks are most likely to be conducted in French and English with simultaneous interpretation. Barnier, a former French EU commissioner who clashed with the City of London, speaks English but wants the right to negotiate in his native tongue.

English is also highly unlikely to disappear as a dominant language in the EU any time soon. Not only is it an official language for the Irish and Maltese governments, but many diplomats prefer to use English as a common second language rather than French.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ys-juncker

KK wrote:Couldn't help himself...

Guardian wrote:The English language is losing importance in Europe, the president of the European commission has said amid simmering tensions over the Brexit negotiations.

Speaking to an audience of European diplomats and experts in Florence, Jean-Claude Juncker also described the UK’s decision to leave the EU as a tragedy.

“Slowly but surely English is losing importance in Europe,” Juncker said, to applause from his audience. “The French will have elections on Sunday and I would like them to understand what I am saying.” After these opening remarks in English, he switched to French for the rest of the speech.

It is not the first time the English language has been caught in the crossfire of the Brexit negotiations. At a recent EU summit May slapped down reports that Brexit negotiations would be conducted in French, and after the June referendum EU officials made it known they planned to downgrade the use of English in the corridors of Brussels.

In reality, the Brexit talks are most likely to be conducted in French and English with simultaneous interpretation. Barnier, a former French EU commissioner who clashed with the City of London, speaks English but wants the right to negotiate in his native tongue.

English is also highly unlikely to disappear as a dominant language in the EU any time soon. Not only is it an official language for the Irish and Maltese governments, but many diplomats prefer to use English as a common second language rather than French.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ys-juncker

It will become less important as we leave as we are a massive country in Europe. French and German are bound to dominate.

The Irish and Maltese will ensure English survives as an EU language. Plus the fact that the EU will want trade and dialogue with America, Canada etc and that China, India, Japan etc are more likely to speak English.

Non-story.

If any language is likely to replace English as the international language used the world over, then it will not be a European language. It's much more likely to be Mandarin.

Lagamorph wrote:If any language is likely to replace English as the international language used the world over, then it will not be a European language. It's much more likely to be Mandarin.

Why? China has a large population but it's languages are not commonly spoken anywhere else. English, Spanish and French have a large number of native speakers plus a huge number that speak it as a second or third tongue. That's why they'll win out over a language like Mandarin that's not spread over the globe.

English isn't going anywhere, it is the language of business and law.

Junker is such a dickhead. I'm hoping the European leader get annoyed with him soon and sort him out. We've got no choice with may, but at least they can do something about him.

Ian Hislop wasn't exactly singing his praises on HIGNFY tonight either.

The problem is junker doesn't seem to realise that every time he makes these imflamatory statements he is getting more and more British people behind May making negotiations and diplomatic relations even harder. im regularly now hearing people say strawberry float em, let's just leave without any agreement whatsoever.

One thing that annoys me is almost every few days I keep hearing comments from the EU that Britain must guarantee the rights of all European citizens within the uk before any meaningful talks can place. Firstly I haven't heard anything about British people's rights in the rest of the eu, they haven't even made the comments that they are prepared to guarantee British rights if we agree to guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the uk, surely they should be saying that if they want to be seen as the reasonable party and also no talks are even taking place yet. They are not going to happen until after the general election so why do junker and a few others keep making these comments almost everyday. It's just making people angry and turning more British people against the EU. They need to shut up and stop airing these views in public.

Moggy wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:If any language is likely to replace English as the international language used the world over, then it will not be a European language. It's much more likely to be Mandarin.

Why? China has a large population but it's languages are not commonly spoken anywhere else. English, Spanish and French have a large number of native speakers plus a huge number that speak it as a second or third tongue. That's why they'll win out over a language like Mandarin that's not spread over the globe.

Spanish actually has more native speakers than English. Also it's very similar to Italian and Portuguese which extends in reach. I doubt it'll overtake English unless the US economy collapses though.

Even if the US economy collapsed it would be hundreds of years before the use of English worldwide changed. Just agreeing which language would replace it would be difficult, getting the world's multi language speaking population to accept and learn a separate language would be complex and translating the number of legal documents out there would be a nightmare no one wants. When people start thinking about the effort required they will question why it is being considered and then stick with English. English is going nowhere.