Brexit

Squinty wrote:

Meep wrote:So thus far I still do not know what Brexit is supposed to achieve:

- Reduce immigration? Nope, we have always had the power to deport EU nationals who don't find work within three months. Immigration from outside the EU is completely at UK discretion yet accounts for more than that from the EU.
- Trade? Nope, the EU is our biggest trading partner, one of the richest markets in the world and we have over a hundred trade agreements arranged through it with non-EU countries. Germany manages three times the trade we do with many countries, so clearly membership is not a bottleneck.
- Sovereignty? The UK has always had a veto in Europe and any trade agreement, such as those backed by the Brexiteers, requires surrendering sovereignty. You can't enter into any contact without surrendering some freedoms, that's the whole point.
- The 'left behind'? Nope, the EU was one of the biggest wealth redistributers in the UK, trying in vain to make up for decades of neglect by the UK parliament.
- Save money? Nope, the cost to our economy will more than wipe out the marginal amount saved in member fees for the treasury.

So we are surrendering our market access, probably decimating our manufacturing industry in the process, losing banking business in London, strawberry floating up the Irish border and creating much more expensive bureaucracy for what exactly? A few vague agreements with countries on other side of the world that aren't even that valuable to an economy that is 80% service driven.

Jesus strawberry floating wept.

Moggy wrote:

Meep wrote:So thus far I still do not know what Brexit is supposed to achieve:

- Reduce immigration? Nope, we have always had the power to deport EU nationals who don't find work within three months. Immigration from outside the EU is completely at UK discretion yet accounts for more than that from the EU.
- Trade? Nope, the EU is our biggest trading partner, one of the richest markets in the world and we have over a hundred trade agreements arranged through it with non-EU countries. Germany manages three times the trade we do with many countries, so clearly membership is not a bottleneck.
- Sovereignty? The UK has always had a veto in Europe and any trade agreement, such as those backed by the Brexiteers, requires surrendering sovereignty. You can't enter into any contact without surrendering some freedoms, that's the whole point.
- The 'left behind'? Nope, the EU was one of the biggest wealth redistributers in the UK, trying in vain to make up for decades of neglect by the UK parliament.
- Save money? Nope, the cost to our economy will more than wipe out the marginal amount saved in member fees for the treasury.

So we are surrendering our market access, probably decimating our manufacturing industry in the process, losing banking business in London, strawberry floating up the Irish border and creating much more expensive bureaucracy for what exactly? A few vague agreements with countries on other side of the world that aren't even that valuable to an economy that is 80% service driven.

Jesus strawberry floating wept.

Yes but you are forgetting DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM and UNELECTED COMMISSIONERS!

We are happy with our democracy with the Queen and House of Lords at the top thank you very much.

Rex Kramer wrote:That's right, people who come from a long line of BRITISH citizens... oh wait.

lex-man wrote:I doubt there are many people in the middle.

Errkal wrote:The issue is the mps that have the control want to leave and fully leave and like the rabid leavers just about will of the people when anyone questions them.

Basically we are strawberry floated and ain't nothing gonna stop it now it is hugly depressing.

Errkal wrote:That may be the case if the negotiations hadn't started but at this point there isn't time to turn it around and there isn't an actual vote to stop / change anything is parliament that means a damn so a campaign wouldn't do gooseberry fool as there is no way to change it unless you change the mind of may and co which won't happen because is suspect here remain support was a backing of the one she hoped would win but being as she is a human hating scum bag will actually has wanted out to cut rights and gooseberry fool so she ain't appeasing anyone but herself at this point.

Hyperion wrote:I'd like to think that after 20 or so years, we'll be back in the EU, with the Euro and as part of Schengen, and paying more, and that's what these Brextremists will have caused.
And the ones that aren't dead will love it

Moggy wrote:

Errkal wrote:That may be the case if the negotiations hadn't started but at this point there isn't time to turn it around and there isn't an actual vote to stop / change anything is parliament that means a damn so a campaign wouldn't do gooseberry fool as there is no way to change it unless you change the mind of may and co which won't happen because is suspect here remain support was a backing of the one she hoped would win but being as she is a human hating scum bag will actually has wanted out to cut rights and gooseberry fool so she ain't appeasing anyone but herself at this point.

The negotiations are irrelevant if we decided to stay, there is nothing to stop us tearing the whole things up.

Well, nothing except the government of course.

I think May genuinely (if quietly ) supported the Remain argument, she has her issues with the EU but she is sensible enough to have known we were better off in. Since the referendum she saw her chance at being PM. Cameron was gone, the hard right of the Tories was running the show and so she switched sides to get herself to the top. Since then she has been hamstrung by the bulk of the media demanding all sorts of crap based on the referendum result and by her own party lurching ever further towards the right.

Corbyn is the other major problem we have. He wants out and is forcing his party along with him.

It was a perfect storm for the hard Brexit supporters, they had a weak PM (Cameron) call a referendum, got an ambitious fool to campaign for it (Boris), won the referendum and then installed a weak PM (May) to carry out their wishes while the leader of the opposition happily went along with it (Corbyn).

All of that doesn’t mean that a big swell of support for soft Brexit can’t change things. There is still time. I don’t think there is a lot of hope, but if we want to avoid disaster then campaigning for a soft Brexit is still far more likely to be achievable than it is to scrap the whole thing.

Errkal wrote:I dunno looking at the stuff she tried to pull in the home office with full on monitoring of everyone's internet and stuff I think she is a lot more right wing than you seem to suggest.

I mean we will never know for sure, but with the out right, brexit means brexit, red white and racist brexit stuff that she has spouted with a evil scowl on her face I think she was leave from the start but thought she would "back the winner" and some how that has paid off even still.

Moggy wrote:

I mean we will never know for sure, but with the out right, brexit means brexit, red white and racist brexit stuff that she has spouted with a evil scowl on her face I think she was leave from the start but thought she would "back the winner" and some how that has paid off even still.

She was Remain before the referendum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38653681

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... out-brexit

All that changed after the referendum was that she saw her chance at being PM and went with it.